To Love Man (Manush Bhajan) by Nolini Kanta Gupta

This is an English translation of a Bengali article entitled “Manush Bhajan” by Nolini Kanta Gupta (1889-1984) who was a disciple of Sri Aurobindo (see bio on wikipedia).    Sri Aurobindo once remarked, “If Nolini does not understand my Yoga, who does”.  The translation of this article was done by Satadal and originally published by Maya Chattopadhyay of the “Sri Aurobindo Sthan” in Kolkata.

To Love Man (Manush Bhajan) – Nolini Kanta Gupta

(I)

All of you are seeking after the Divine. Very good, I have nothing to object about it. Rather I appreciate your effort and say: Bravo! Because, after all very few among the humanity think of the Divine, far from seeking after Him. But today another thing comes to my mind. Don’t get startled as you hear the same, however strange it may appear to you. I suppose your movement is extremely one-sided – you have no time to see a little this way and that. You have become so intoxicated with the Divine that you are not giving ay importance to man. It appears from your attitude that you want to drive man away from this world and install the Divine as a whole in its place. But the thing I am going to tell you is a bit more difficult.

I say, it is more difficult to love man than to love the Divine. Don’t be so wise as to laugh it away, I am going to explain, listen carefully, then think it over. Well, why man seeks the Divine and when, that is to say, rightly, heart and soul? Why not tell me from your own personal experiences, when indeed you sought whole-heartedly for the Divine? Isn’t it being vexed with man? It is quite natural for man to be in love with man. But what happens then to the man who seeks after true love? He finds that man knows not how to love. He does not get there his soul’s satisfaction. Some sort of want, some incompleteness is always there in this human love. So he goes in search of another partner. Initially he thinks that the person with whom he is in love may not be the right choice – so he leaves one and tries with another. But as he goes on trying and fails with one after another – with how many that depends on his habit and nature – he realises that his idol of love within is not to be found in any man, his longing for love is not to be satiated in this world in mortal things. When the inner condition is like this, then only he seeks after the Divine, conceives some sort of an embodiment of Love in its fullness and his inner being rushes towards it. And herein lies the seed of whole-hearted love for the Divine. Many of you might say: Why so? It is not because we got disgusted with man that we sought after the Divine. We have loved man like a human, we know that to love the Divine is greater than to love man and so we have offered our true love at the feet of the Divine. Well, but what does it mean? Firstly when there is an uproar all around for the Divine, it is quite easily understandable that some of you that is to say those who have not yet reached the proper age to be involved in love-affairs will leave man aside and straightaway clasp the Divine. But that is simply a fashion and not the attraction of true love. Then again, when you affirm that to love the Divine is greater than to love man, your lips are repeating only a catchword – neither you know what it means to love humanly, nor you understand what it means to love the Divine, you have not realised what is this thing called love. Something real and concrete develops only on feeling, on experience, on realisation. You are a human being, whatever attraction, sweetness and greatness are there in love you know by loving man only, at least it begins with man as the base. But instead of doing that, if you impose your love on some unknown and unfamiliar Divine, then it is mostly poetry, illusion and imagination, there is hardly anything genuine and real in it. So, it would be no wonder if one, who has attempted to love the Divine without trying to love man, is found to turn one’s face away from the Divine after having tasted even a little of human love. But one who has turned to the Divine having failed to derive satisfaction from human love, has a very little possibility of downfall. For that I don’t mean to say that there can be no appearance of an inborn God-lover. But such great souls are very rare. I doubt whether we have even a single such soul among you or among us – if not, no harm; rather it is better not to have one.

Therefore the gist is this: We turn to the Divine out of abhiman(ego) against man. If my love would have been fully satiated, if all the wants and hankerings of my soul, my entire being would have been gratified with man, then who would have taken the hell of a trouble to seek after the Divine? But who is to blame for this dissatisfaction, this lack of gratification of desires? Does the fault lie with man himself, ingrained in his nature? Is it the dharma of Nature, the eternal and infallible law of creation, that human receptacle can never hold love in its fullness? But nobody tries to dip into this matter. No sooner man fails us, we proclaim that human beings are good-for-nothing, we can’t get anything out of them, they are simply full of filth and dirt and narrowness – let us see whether we can do something with the Divine.

Indeed, as we go to love the Divine we see that a lot of botherations concomitant to love man has been cleared. We heave a sigh of relief saying, from what a danger we are saved. Because the demands with which we approach man is not applicable to the Divine. The feelings which spontaneously arise as we see a man or come into his contact, somehow disappears as we look at the Divine and try to develop a relation with Him. Human love has two dangers which are at the root of all dissatisfaction. First, attraction of the body, that is to say, sex. Second, the feeling of ‘mine’, domination. In fact love means only these two things for man. I love so and so, that means he or she is mine, exclusively mine and nobody else, nobody else has any right over him or her, he or she is my favourite and my property, so I shall do whatever I like with him or her. Moreover he or she is there to please me, for my enjoyment and to satisfy my desires, in a word he or she is the food for my sense-organs. Man can love man only with this attitude. But this attitude has only one consequence. As I proceed a bit with this attitude, I find that the person whom I love is not by any means becoming mine that way. Man is not a piece of coin that I shall keep confined in a box or play ducks and drakes with it! As I want to make him or her mine, he or she also wants to make me his or hers – it is as if we want to swallow each other like those two snakes of the fairy tales. I don’t want to react rightly even when I perceive that everyone else is a living, conscious and dynamic being like myself having his or her own will, choice, attraction and demand. Who will or can sacrifice his or her everything to another? The result is jealousy, separation, despair, indifference. The same thing happens with bodily enjoyment. Either the desire becomes more and more intense like a fire conflagrating with addition of clarified butter – or there comes a feeling of something missing, some sort of insatiety else a disdain out of excessive satiety, an indifference out of exhaustion even after the satisfaction of all the bodily enjoyments.

But when I think of the Divine, then these two feelings get no support at all. The thing which appears in our mind as we remember the Divine is such that it seems too silly to cast an angry glance at it and call it ‘mine’, the demands of the body find no place to play in the mind. Because, the first and the simple thing about the Divine is this that He belongs not only to me but to all and that He has no physical body as I have, at least I cannot catch hold of Him saying ‘tvam stri’ (‘Thou art woman’) or ‘tvam puman’ (‘Thou art man’).  Therefore, when these two demands fall off, we are as if freed from the two main responsibilities of love, and our inner being, relieved from worries to a certain extent, searches for other ways of loving the Divine. That is why I say that it is easier to love the Divine than to love man. Of course in the beginning or at times the human feelings assail again, we want to impose human feelings even on the Divine and produce many poems, but after a short while we see that those things do not apply here properly. If we want to return again to man even after failing to satisfy all the expectations, then those expectations will again revive in us. But if we want to go to the Divine, we are to cut the roots of all those expectations. Isn’t it easier to be sure of no expectation in hopelessness rather than await hopefully in expectation?

But is this expectation from man a mirage altogether? As I had raised the question beforehand, is it man’s dharma a defect of his nature that love cannot be satiated there? I say that it is not so. It is not man’s defect, but the defect of the way in which he loves. It is difficult to love man than to love the Divine, difficult indeed, but not impossible. And because it is difficult, that is why I say, to love man is superior than to love the Divine.

(II)

To love man and to love the Divine – I was comparing these two. I was saying that to love man is difficult than and superior to loving the Divine. Because, to love the Divine means to discard the body and life, and to unite with the bodiless, with the soul. To love man means to keep the body and life intact, to satisfy their demand, and in the process to effect union of two souls – not only of souls, but the unification of two bodies, two lives and two minds. It is easier to remain absorbed in the pure ananda of the soul after discarding completely or allowing only a little play of the external world and things. But it is very difficult to embody and live that pure ananda of the soul by body and life through enjoyment in this very world and things. Most of the sadhaks didn’t even want to have a try at it, considering it to be extremely dangerous or impossible. But you want this life and the world, you dared to express godlike play in man, it does not befit you remain indifferent in this regard.

One must love the Divine to know what love truly is and to acquire it. Impure man with his impure nature confines love within his body’s desire, his life’s hunger, his mind’s egotism or sense of possession. This is where he errs. Man indeed is obliged to start with his impure nature – since this is his material, his base. But his love fails because he holds that impure nature as ultimate – and that brings insatiety, despair and indifference. There is sex and even a sort of egotism in man’s love. But this sex and egotism become pure and true when it is supported from behind by true love. Man does not search for true love, he stops with the gratification of sex and egotism, makes of these two the main actors in love’s play. The sadhak must transcend these two. The impure play of sex must be followed by the sadhana of pure love. That means to love the Divine – where there is no possibility of the disturbance of sex. But then again one has to return to man, otherwise life becomes meaningless, because that divine love is nothing but a form of nirvana only. One has to return but with a new vision. No longer I hold this body and life, this enjoyment as superior. Then I see and feel first of all that this union between the lover and his beloved is in reality a union of the Divine with the Divine, one soul kissing another. When we are capable of embracing with this love without any taint of sex, then only this play of sex blossoms into perfection. Then I see that not only I am loving and am loved, not only she too is loving and is loved – both of us embody the union of Radha and Krishna.

All sadhanas have three stages. First, unrefined human; then just the opposite, the other extreme – divine. Then at the end where these two are in agreement – divinely human or realised soul. First man, then the Divine, at the end divine man. First only body, then only spirit, then spiritual body.

Then there is one thing to be noted here. There is no hard and fast rule that all sadhaks (yoga practitioners) have to rise step by step slowly like this, have to finish the play of each stage fully and then to begin another. There is no rigid rule as such that one has to fully meet all the demands of the unrefined stage, then one has to become fully a saint, then again one has to return to the human society and find a shelter. Remember, the twin play of enjoyment and indifference need not necessarily be expressed in external life. It is not a must that I am to adopt the style of a householder and assume the guise of a saint at one time or other. Sadhana is mainly an affair of inner life. One may renounce what is to be renounced in the inner world and may begin to acquire what is to be acquired there itself. Therefore remaining as we are ordinarily, we are to manifest within the extraordinary thing which is our aim.

Probably the statement became highly philosophical, so let me explain in simple language. It is not necessary to satisfy all the enjoyments of life and to swallow all its poison in order to realise the imperfection of the unrefined natural life. With the slightest taste of it a man, in whom the seed of sadhana has already been sown, can realise that it is not all, something else is required. But just because something else is required, it is not necessary to renounce it completely. One can search for the supernatural remaining within the natural. That is to say, one can awaken true love remaining in the world of sex, in company with sex. In my opinion this very path is better for the success of your endeavour. Because, though it may be necessary to become indifferent towards sex from time to time, but he who wants to uproot sex completely to grasp true love, wants to kill the body to realise the soul, he may realise true love, may realise the soul, but it becomes pretty difficult, rather almost impossible, for him to revive sex and body with love and soul. Because the very purpose is to purify sex and body, for that one needs to keep them alive, to satisfy their demand, to handle them. Otherwise, if excluded completely, when sex will return again, it will come back with its impure form, you will have to start afresh the sadhana of sex. That was why I forbade you beforehand to be a janma-siddha like Prahlad. If the fulfilment of the body could be attained by the sheer force of spiritual realisation, then why a great sannyasin like Shankara had to take a secret initiation from Ubhayabharati?

The gist of what I have said is this: don’t seek after the Divine discarding man altogether, don’t abandon your normal desires to rush towards heaven. Even if you are in love with a human being, don’t keep him or her at bay, keep company with him or her as a human being, and try to blossom therein godlike attitude, love divine. See the human but with the eyes of a god, love your beloved but with the heart of the Divine.

Many will say that I am advising people to play with fire. But what else can I do? The whole world is full of fire – the very meaning of life is fire. Today or tomorrow one must play with this fire. I don’t ask man to walk with eyes closed, I don’t believe that man is brittle enough to crumble with a tap. I want him to see and understand everything, to walk in broad daylight. This will do him a world of good without causing any harm. I have immense faith in the power and capacity of man.

At the end of it all, I would like to impress upon you that the thing I told you is not a theory of my own. This sadhana is very well in vogue in our country. The Vaishnavites elucidated on the greatness of this sadhana saying –

   Man is superior to all, superior to all is to love man.
    Man is superior to all, beyond the sanction of the Vedas.

Nolini Kanta Gupta

Nolini Kanta Gupta

Publisher’s Note

Many of us, whose mother-tongue is not Bengali, were demanding an English rendering of Nolini Kanta Gupta’s wonderful article “Manush Bhajan” that touches the deepest of our emotions; and we are immensely happy to see our demand met by Satadal. I am grateful to the Divine Mother and thankful to the Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust, Pondicherry, for giving the opportunity to publish this English rendering titled “To Love Man”. Let humanity realise that “it is difficult to love man than to love the Divine, difficult indeed, but not impossible.”

– Maya Chattopadhyay

Translator’s Note

This gem of an article “Manus Bhajan” is from the book “Sadhaker Katha” by Nolini Kanta Gupta, the Vyasa of the present age, our Nolini-da. The book, now out of print, is included in his Rachnavali, Vol.8 It is interesting to note here that I made a selection of 109 articles when I was given the task of selecting 100 articles from his writings when someone approached Nolini-da asking for his approval to bring out a volume titled ‘Rachana-shatadal‘ – and this article was among the final list of hundred seen and approved by Nolini-da himself.

– Satadal

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51 thoughts on “To Love Man (Manush Bhajan) by Nolini Kanta Gupta

    1. Sandeep Post author

      If you live in or visit Kolkata or Pondicherry, you might find it in one of local Auro centers.

      Reply
  1. Mamata dash

    I had not read this beautiful article of Naliin Da, he has cleared a very vital confusion of human love and Divine love, I needed this. Has been it translated to Odia by Shabda? I have never seen it tough. I stay in Pondcherry

    Reply
    1. Sandeep Post author

      I have no idea if it has been translated in Odia. Since you live in Pondy, you are in a better position to find out.

      Reply
      1. Mamata dash

        Thanks Sndeep, Now I ave come to Odisha for some months. I like your website.. so many new articles and compilations are there. Thanks a lot.

  2. Sandeep Post author

    I have asked Anmol who mailed me this article to respond to the above questions. He is going to do so after checking with the translator.

    Reply
    1. Anmol

      I enquired at SABDA and the article in bengali doesn’t exist separately as a booklet like this one did. It is there somewhere in the complete works for those who want to read it in the original and the translator’s note mentions that place. SABDA doesn’t also have any odia translation of it. I will try to ask the translator if he has the bengali original separately.

      Reply
  3. mike

    ls nolini suggesting some kind of tantric sex [or some kind of sacred sex] in this article, because l can’t catch his drift – and is he addressing this to sadhaks who are finding it difficult to put the sex-impulse aside or does it include all sadkaks??
    l know SA said that to use sex in the right way we would have to be beyond the ‘HUMAN’ – supposedly meaning overmental or Supramental. Personlly, l don’t see why sex would be at all necessary at that stage – but SA did mention it.

    “Then I see and feel first of all that this union between the lover and his beloved is in reality a union of the Divine with the Divine, one soul kissing another. When we are capable of embracing with this love without any taint of sex, then only this play of sex blossoms into perfection”.

    lf there is no taint of sex then it can no longer be called sex, can it – it’s just love. l mean what has sex to do with it then – what does he mean by the the ‘play of sex’??
    l can imagine being untainted or untouched by the sex-impulse, but why on earth would this kind of Love need to be consummated through physical sex. This is all tantric stuff, isn’t it. Does it actually have anything to do with the lntegral Yoga?? Or is there some big secret l’m not aware of.

    “That is to say, one can awaken true love remaining in the world of sex, in company with sex. In my opinion this very path is better for the success of your endeavour. Because, though it may be necessary to become indifferent towards sex from time to time, but he who wants to uproot sex completely to grasp true love, wants to kill the body to realise the soul, he may realise true love, may realise the soul, but it becomes pretty difficult, rather almost impossible, for him to revive sex and body with love and soul.”

    This is totally confusing to me and seems to be the complete opposite of what SA and M taught. ls nolini saying we need to indulge in sex in order to find True Love!! – the first line suggests this. According to M, the only True Love is Divine Love – why would that require sexual indulgence?
    He seems to believe that giving up sex is killing the body, as in the above ‘but he who wants to uproot sex completely to grasp true love, wants to kill the body to realise the soul’ – so, is bhramacharya a wrong practice??

    Then he says we might realise True Love or realise the Soul but it becomes impossible to ‘revive sex and body’ after – who would want to revive ‘sex’ [what’s he talking about here, lol]. l know there has to be a Supramental Transformation of the body, but does that mean we return here from the Supramental heights [is he even talking about the Supramental] and start becoming sexually active again to attain the Final Perfection. Perhaps l’ve just lost the plot lol.

    “Because the very purpose is to purify sex and body, for that one needs to keep them alive, to satisfy their demand, to handle them. Otherwise, if excluded completely, when sex will return again, it will come back with its impure form, you will have to start afresh the sadhana of sex”

    ln the last paragraph, he says we have to purify sex – l thought converting the sexual energy from retas to ojas [or whichever way] was purify it, or have l got that wrong too.
    So, he is also saying here that we need to keep satisfying the sex-impulse. l imagine guru’s like rajneesh [osho] would have loved this.
    Apparently, sex will come back with a vengeance one day, even after we’ve realised the Highest.

    l can see why some people told him he was playing with fire, because it apparently goes in total opposition to what SA and M said.
    Am l missing something here. Can someone please enlighten me if l have. Am l the only one confused by this??

    Coincidentally, there are those in the Twinsoul community who have similar beliefs.
    Perhaps, this is what the Twinsoul phenomenon is all about, lol.

    Reply
    1. Sandeep Post author

      I have to confess I didn’t read the entire article before I posted it. I had only read the first part, assuming that Nolini’s article can be put up unquestioned.

      I think the gist of Nolini’s article is not to abandon human love out of disgust but to purify it gradually. Maybe he brought in sex because the seekers he was addressing were not ready to abandon it. Or maybe there are some errors in translation to English ?

      We also have to remember that Nolini got married and had two children despite Sri Aurobindo’s gentle suggestions against that venture.

      Reply
      1. Anmol

        Sandeep has said much of what needs to be said. There is the raw animal sex and there is something like what is mentioned in the following lines of Savitri which come very close to mentioning sex if not actually mentioning it. I think something like this divine romance is what Nolini is hinting at by purification of sex.

        But when her grief to the surface pressed too close,
        These things, once gracious adjuncts of her joy,
        Seemed meaningless to her, a gleaming shell,
        Or were a round mechanical and void,
        Her body’s actions shared not by her will.
        Always behind this strange divided life
        Her spirit like a sea of living fire
        Possessed her lover and to his body clung,
        One locked embrace to guard its threatened mate.
        All night she woke through the slow silent hours
        Brooding on the treasure of his bosom and face,
        Hung o’er the sleep-bound beauty of his brow
        Or laid her burning cheek upon his feet.
        Waking at morn her lips endlessly clung to his,
        Unwilling ever to separate again
        Or lose that honeyed drain of lingering joy,
        Unwilling to loose his body from her breast,
        The warm inadequate signs that love must use.
        Intolerant of the poverty of Time
        Her passion catching at the fugitive hours
        Willed the expense of centuries in one day
        Of prodigal love and the surf of ecstasy;
        Or else she strove even in mortal time
        To build a little room for timelessness
        By the deep union of two human lives,
        Her soul secluded shut into his soul.
        After all was given she demanded still;
        Even by his strong embrace unsatisfied,
        She longed to cry, “O tender Satyavan,
        O lover of my soul, give more, give more
        Of love while yet thou canst, to her thou lovst.
        Imprint thyself for every nerve to keep
        That thrills to thee the message of my heart.
        For soon we part and who shall know how long
        Before the great wheel in its monstrous round
        Restore us to each other and our love?”

        Page 497, The Joy of Union; the Ordeal of the Foreknowledge
        of Death and the Heart’s Grief and Pain, Canto One, Book Seven The Book of Yoga
        Savitri

        Besides Mother has said some apparently totally opposite things on this subject like :
        (1)
        “humanity has the sexual impulse in a way
        altogether natural, spontaneous and, I would say, legitimate.
        This impulse will naturally and spontaneously disappear with
        animality. Many other things will disappear, as for example
        the need to eat and perhaps also the need to sleep in the way
        we sleep now. But the most conscious impulse in a superior
        humanity, which has continued as a source of… bliss is a big
        word, but joy, delight—is certainly the sexual activity, and that
        will have absolutely no reason for existence in the functions
        of Nature when the need to create in that way will no longer
        exist. Therefore, the capacity of entering into relation with the
        joy of life will rise by one step or will be oriented differently.
        But what the ancient spiritual aspirants had sought on principle
        —sexual negation—is an absurd thing, because this must be
        only for those who have gone beyond this stage and no longer
        have animality in them. And it must drop off naturally, without
        effort and without struggle. To make of it a centre of conflict and
        struggle is ridiculous. It is only when the consciousness ceases to
        be human that it drops off quite naturally. Here also there is a
        transition which may be somewhat difficult, because the beings
        of transition are always in an unstable equilibrium; but within
        oneself there is a kind of flame and a need which makes it not
        painful—it is not painful effort, it is something that one can do
        with a smile. But to seek to impose it upon those who are not
        ready for this transition is absurd.
        It is common sense. They are human, but they must not
        pretend that they are not.
        It is only when spontaneously the impulse becomes impossible
        for you, when you feel that it is something painful and
        contrary to your deeper need that it becomes easy; then, well,
        externally you cut these bonds and it is finished.” (Notes on the Way, Pg 28, Vol. 11 CWM)

        and

        (2)
        “One’s entire physical activity should be organised to help the
        body to grow in balance and strength and beauty. For this
        purpose, one must abstain from all pleasure-seeking, including
        sexual pleasure. For every sexual act is a step towards death.
        That is why from the most ancient times, in the most sacred
        and secret schools, this act was prohibited to every aspirant
        towards immortality. The sexual act is always followed by a
        longer or shorter period of unconsciousness that opens the door
        to all kinds of influences and causes a fall in consciousness.
        But if one wants to prepare oneself for the supramental life,
        one must never allow one’s consciousness to slip into laxity and
        inconscience under the pretext of pleasure or even of rest and
        relaxation. One should find relaxation in force and light, not
        in darkness and weakness. Continence is therefore the rule for
        all those who aspire for progress. But especially for those who
        want to prepare themselves for the supramental manifestation,
        this continence must be replaced by a total abstinence, achieved
        not by coercion and suppression but by a kind of inner alchemy,
        as a result of which the energies that are normally used in the
        act of procreation are transmuted into energies for progress and
        integral transformation. It is obvious that for the result to be
        total and truly beneficial, all sexual impulses and desires must
        be eliminated from the mental and vital consciousness as well as
        from the physical will. All radical and durable transformation
        proceeds from within outwards, so that the external transformation
        is the normal, almost inevitable result of this process.
        A decisive choice has to be made between lending the body
        to Nature’s ends in obedience to her demand to perpetuate the
        race as it is, and preparing this same body to become a step
        towards the creation of the new race. For it is not possible to
        do both at the same time; at every moment one has to decide
        whether one wants to remain part of the humanity of yesterday
        or to belong to the superhumanity of tomorrow.
        One must renounce being adapted to life as it is and succeeding
        in it if one wants to prepare for life as it will be and to
        become an active and efficient part of it.
        One must refuse pleasure if one wants to open to the delight
        of existence, in a total beauty and harmony.” (The Four Austerities and The Four Liberations, Pg 54, On Education, Vol 12, CWM)

        I suppose what Nolini’s article is suggesting is to treat sex like all other parts of our nature and be patient in its gradual transformation.

  4. anraya12

    perhaps para ( I) as told by Divine Mother is for general society/auroville and para (II ) is for ‘sadhaks’ seriously persuing integral yoga.

    This article by nolini could have been to a certain section of the public in general.

    Reply
  5. mike

    “We also have to remember that Nolini got married and had two children despite Sri Aurobindo’s gentle suggestions against that venture”

    Thanks for that information, sandeep. l didn’t know that.

    “But to seek to impose it upon those who are not
    ready for this transition is absurd.”

    Thanks for the quotes anmol.
    Perhaps, it’s as you and sandeep say or as Mother says in the above. Perhaps, nolini was addressing people at auroville who were in a marital situation.
    What Mother says in the second quote is really what l was getting at. Sex has no place in the lntegral Yoga, but obviously, it has to fall away naturally. lt’s been discussed at length in other posts, but usually it falls away either though the opening of certain chakras [heart mainly l think] or the rising of kundalini to a certain level – at least that’s how it happened to me.
    The more l think about what nolini is saying, the more it sounds like he’s advising sadhaks who are just entering the path who are married or in some kind of relationship – it’s just not clear, that’s all.
    l remember SA saying somewhere that to attain the Highest bond we need to become a Master of lust.

    Reply
  6. Mamata dash

    Yes, It is absolutely true that the sadhaka of Integral yoga must be free from any type of indulgence. He should have sense of beauty, aesthetic subtlity .. bu there must not be ay suppression to the subconscious part. that is not the am of our Yoga. Perhaps Nalini da as elaborated that sex should go naturally. .. a all indulgence of senses.. one must not suppress.,one should transcend slowly. Even in Savitri there is a stanza about Savitri and Satyavan’s married love. Savitri had achieved high level of spirituality, she received supra mental light, but she has married and also wanted to children… When asked why Mother allowed marriage in Auroville Mother answered’ As the Divine willed” .. .

    Reply
  7. mike

    Yes, mamata, l agree. Suppression or mental control doesn’t really work, especially when sex-imagery etc. is everywhere these days. l’m not sure how it can be ‘transcended slowly’ without giving in to indulgence – l suppose this is why the buddhists have a middle-path. When someone takes up the lntegral Yoga abstinence become an all-important condition, as far as l understand, but it’s going to be a daily battle, l think. l remember reading an article by an aurovillian sadhak who said he was struggling with it on a daily basis. l know M says it shouldn’t be a battle, but how is that possible for ordinary mortals – like l said above, until the higher chakras open [probably through kundalini] or the Psychic comes prominently to the front, this seems impossible, and suppression will automatically happen – also, it will arise subconsciously in dream for many years. ln the agenda. M mentions some disciples who were suffering from suppression – l think it produced a rash.
    As SA said we give sex too much importance.
    Strangely, l was searching for info on another post and came across SA’s comment on mastering lust [kama]:

    “The function of the shakti is something special. In my own case it was a necessary condition for the work that I had to do. If I had had to do only my own transformation or give a new yoga or a new ideal to a select few people who came into personal contact with me I could have done that without having any Shakti. But, for the work that I had to do, it was necessary that the two sides must come together. By the coming together of Mirra **; and me certain conditions are created which make it easy for you to do the transformation. You can take advantage of these conditions. But it is not necessary that everybody should have a Shakti just because in my case it was necessary. You cannot generalise like that from one case. It is not a question of great or small. It is a question of your being less complex than I am. If you had to do all the things that I have done you would never be able to do it. And before you can have a Shakti you must first of all deserve a Shakti. The first condition is that you must be master of all the movements of Kama, lust. There are many other things. One thing is that there must be complete union on every plane of inner consciousness.”

    Reply
  8. Mamata dash

    Thanks Sandeep about the discussion of SA. Perhaps it is very personal sadhana , t transform Sex in to love.. if one is genuine and sincere an really wants to do Yoga ,then I believe and had some experiences also that Mother helps.. without Her help it is not possible.. so without bias,fear, or hypocrisy if one genuinely tries Mother helps ,I know that.

    Reply
  9. Sandeep Post author

    In response to the discussion above, Alok Pandey sent me this comment for posting

    “If one reads clearly and carefully, one will not mistake the article for advocating sexual indulgence. Such thoughts will only arise in minds that can think of no other relation between man and woman than the sexual one. In fact it is just the opposite. What it means is that by staying away from women due to fear of sexual involvement, man does not transform that part of nature. It is by loving truly, freed from the clutches of sex and expectations that he can help this part in its transformation. Such relationships were known to all yogis and many of them whose names are legion had children such as Vasistha, Viswamitra, Kashyapa, Bharadwaj and many more. Does it make them lesser rishis and the seeming ‘celibate’ who indulges in mental sex and such like greater yogis? NKG is pointing this fallacy, this mithyacara by his discerning intelligence. Just as Krishna points out this mithyacara of Arjuna in the Gita. He is not advocating sexual indulgence but sublimating and transforming it….a task far more difficult than merely suppressing it or else worse still feigning celibacy by remaining unmarried like the monasteries of old. That is why he says it is much more difficult to do (love man truly) than to love God. But without that ‘risk’ the yoga cannot be complete. Of course this is for the more mature sadhaka and not for anyone and everyone. The article should not have been posted publicly as it will cause confusion in the minds of people as the Records of Yoga does.”

    Reply
  10. mike

    Yes, a somewhat arrogant statement by mr pandey [ l know he has some worldly qualifications [which mean nothing to me] and some authority around pondicherry, but what are his yogic qualifications in this matter]. Unfortunately, this type of arrogance is fairly typical of the medical profession in general. l assume all those who warned nolini that he was playing with fire were not thinking clearly [according to mr pandey, that is]. As in the first sentence:

    “If one reads clearly and carefully, one will not mistake the article for advocating sexual indulgence. Such thoughts will only arise in minds that can think of no other relation between man and woman than the sexual one.”

    You can’t get much more insulting than that. l can assure mr pandey that l can certainly think of man and woman in a non-sexual way. l’m even going through this at the moment where sex plays no part. Obviously, the gist of nolinil’s statement is towards manifesting a Higher Love beyond sex – unless he was going through some yogic breakdown at the time he wrote this. lf nolini wasn’t advocating sex-indulgence then perhaps mr pandey can explain the very explicit and suggestive remarks below:

    “When we are capable of embracing with this love without any taint of sex, then only this play of sex blossoms into perfection”.

    “That is to say, one can awaken true love remaining in the world of sex, in COMPANY WITH SEX” – [How clear do we need to be? That sounds like a clear invitation to sex-indulgence in my book. Although, l seriously believe he’s addressing people in a married siituation here]

    ” but he who wants to uproot sex completely to grasp true love, wants to kill the body to realise the soul, he may realise true love, may realise the soul, but it becomes pretty difficult, rather almost impossible, for him to revive sex and body with love and soul.”
    [What is ‘reviving sex’ if not indulgence. Nolini should have picked his words better, if he was referring to some deeper Transformation]

    ““Because the very purpose is to purify sex and body, for that one needs to keep them alive, to satisfy their demand, to handle them. Otherwise, if excluded completely, when sex will return again, it will come back with its impure form, you will have to start afresh the sadhana of sex”

    That is extremely ambigous IMO. ls nolini writing in some cryptic code that only his friends can understand?
    One needs to keep them ALIVE, to SATISFY their Demand – doesn’t this suggest indulgence in some form. Nolini is saying here that sex should NOT be excluded completely, isn’t he? lt looks like he’s suggesting a kind of middle path for those sadhaks who are having trouble putting sex aside and feel the need for marriage – although, it might simply be that because nolini himself was married, he concludes that it’s somehow an essential experience for every sadhak.. Didn’t SA drop sex completely – we are not in the same league as Sri Aurobindo, of course, and His Twinsoul connection with the Mother was the truely important thing, but this had nothing to do with the notion of reviving sex IMO…

    l know there are many great yogi’s etc. who have been married with children. Even the Mother was. Sri Ramakrishna was. Anandamayi ma was. Buddha’s wife Yasoda. Vivekananda lived amoung prostitutes.
    ln the ashram there were people like Udar Pinto who were married with children. But, this has nothing to do with whether nolini was advocating sex-indulgence. lt’s the lack of clarity in his words that causes concern. Or is mr pandey simply just afraid to question the ambiguity in nolini’s statement?
    And l don’t think it’s for mr pandey to say that it shouldn’t have been made public.
    That’s the sort of mindset that ripped up a third of Pavitra’s diary entries IMO.

    ln short, l see nothing clear and precise in nolini’s statement and certainly not because some professor of psychiatry says there is.
    And what does mr pandey’s last statement mean?

    “He is not advocating sexual indulgence but sublimating and transforming it….a task far more difficult than merely suppressing it or else worse still feigning celibacy by remaining unmarried like the monasteries of old. That is why he says it is much more difficult to do (love man truly) than to love God. But without that ‘risk’ the yoga cannot be complete. Of course this is for the more mature sadhaka and not for anyone and everyone. The article should not have been posted publicly as it will cause confusion in the minds of people as the Records of Yoga does.”

    ls he saying that the Yoga can’t be completed by mature sadhaks unless they get married with 2.4 children lol? So, we’re taking a risk if we remain celibate – this is an even worse ambiguity than nolini’s. Mr pandey seems to be saying that we can’t sublimate or transform sexual energy unless we are married or in some kind of relationship….

    Reply
    1. Sandeep Post author

      Alok is not internet-savvy and therefore sent me the following comment in response. Mike, lets end this thread here because I don’t have the time to be an intermediary in this conversation 🙂

      ————

      From Alok

      Hi Mike

      There is no need to get so angry and start getting so personal. Yes there was a note of remonstrance in
      my words and it was perhaps unwarranted. However I assure you it was neither personal ( I do not know you in fact, though you seem to have gathered much data about my outer life) in it. It was not in a state of arrogance that I wrote those words but as a rejoinder since it concerned a gross misunderstanding of the words of someone of the stature of Nolini da. To think that he did not know what he is writing and its ramifications is preposterous enough. But what is worse is to entertain the thought that ‘…he may have been suffering from a breakdown…’. In fact it is precisely because this article may lead to certain misunderstanding that I wrote about it not being something for a blog. I am not against its publication as you perhaps assume. But surely not everyone will be able to appreciate the depth of honesty and the deep wisdom of this article. When something is likely to create confusion in the minds of people, then it is best to keep it away for the moment. When the person is ready and if he needs it, he will find it. And if such a restriction is wrong then, I am afraid, the Mother Herself was not keen for the Agenda to be published as a whole and Sri Aurobindo never wanted His personal diary to be published. Even the Mother tore away many pages of Her own diary before agreeing to its publication. So this idea that Pavitra da’s diary pages were torn by someone may not be true. It may be he himself who in his deep wisdom chose to remove what he felt is unnecessary.

      Coming to the subject, the issue is not whether you or me have had any spiritual experience or not, it is also not about my qualifications or degrees or profession etc so lets not drag these useless things. The issue is as follows:

      1. Is there a possibility of human love on the path to the Divine (in this yoga at least)?

      The answer he gives is that yes it is possible and at some stage one has to even confront and tackle it. We may leave it for later on but the danger is that when we return to working upon this part later, it may be extremely difficult. therefore the article suggests that we can start working upon this part as we go along the way.

      The article also shows us that while we may profess that we love God and shun man we may not even know what love is and thereby live in a delusion of God-love. A better way is to take up this energy and refine it until it changes from base metal into pure gold. This is more difficult but more complete a way.

      2. What then if the sexual impulse and ego intervenes and spoils it?

      Yes the danger is there? It is playing with fire so to say. But can we avoid it for long. We have to confront this impulse too, and work towards a transformation of this energy as well.

      This is possible because there is behind the sexual impulse too a divine principle, however clouded and obscure. If there was no divine principle behind it, it has to be simply discarded.

      3. What would become then of the sexual impulse when it is thus changed?

      Instead of the crude physical relation of an animal nature it would be changed to an expression of true love where the physical act is reduced to a minimum, ’embrace and kiss’ as the article seems to suggest. It will be simply an instrument for expression completely freed from vital excitement, sentimental romanticism, and all that accompanies our present sexual behaviour. Anmol has rightly pointed out some lines of Savitri in this context though those lines have many other ramifications in it.

      There are many more things but let me restrict to only these few as it would take a long time to touch upon each and every aspect. It is important that when we read something of this nature we should not pick out one or two sentences and highlight them. Our reductionist mind often does that and in that process misses the drift, especially when the lens of preconceived notions and string personal views and judgments come into play.

      Mind you, dear Mike, I am not trying to convince you or anyone and I am fully aware of the dangers of misreading this article. However I would give you one personal advice. Please do not rush to judge persons of the stature of Nolini da. Approach such beings with humility, try to go behind the words and see them in the light of the consciousness of such a disciple as he is of whom Sri Aurobindo remarked once that ‘If Nolini is not doing my yoga then who is doing it?’ And if the word of the disciples still eludes you, then best is to go back to the Master and read all that They have said on the subject in its entirety…to reflect and meditate upon their luminous words, to try to live these great truths and then the real sense of the Word will disclose itself before you as the meaning of a mantra unfolds before the seeker. Otherwise there is every likelihood that we will be lost in the maze of words heard thru’ the mirror of our mental noise and understood thru’ the maze and haze of our gross mentality.

      I am attaching words of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother showing us all sides of the issue…for our reflections.

      Very best
      Alok

      (He also sent a length attachment with quotes which I am not posting right now!)

      Reply
  11. Mamata Dash

    Thanks to Dr. Pandey . He has given the exact understanding of Nolini da’s article. We know very well that Integral Yoga is meant for transforming not suppressing. While we are in the process then we have to go through many experiences, crisis, tests but we have to clearly understand that some how we have to tackle and go ahead.When we are sincerely aware of our goal. Mother will help us in our effort, there is no doubt about it. I have many experiences like that. I can swear about Mother’s tremendous help in this kind of problem.

    Reply
  12. mike

    l was going to leave this unanswered but……….
    There was no anger in my words, although it might have appeared that way. And it was not a personal attack – l actually said ‘arrogance’ is a general trait of the medical fraternity who ‘GENERALLLY’ assume an air of superiority. This was not directed at mr pandey who l respect as a brother sadhak and is hopefully not of the that common medical ilk that l’m referring too.. The mention of his opinion about publishing certain things was a little personal – but justified IMO.
    But, lt does seem that mr pandey can remonstrate without anger but no one else can – this is another typical approach by the psychiatric profession. Everyone is mad except them – the slightest emotional reaction is a mental illness according to the DSM, l believe. No offence mr pandey.

    Also, mr pandey, it is not difficult to glean information about you, since you appear to be widely advertised across the internet. So, why sandeep is saying your not internet-savvy, is a little hard to understand – especially with those youtube vids as well.
    l assume all the information below – which is easily found – IS actually you:
    “Dr. Alok Pandey

    l’ll have to take his word about the stature of nolini because apparently mr pandey is not really qualified to judge in the Spiritual way – l apologise if l’m wrong. l also know what SA said about nolini, but it was a very long time before the nolini’s above statement became public, l believe, and SA never went into detail about how far along nolini was in the Yoga, and as far as l’m concerned we have no idea what state of realisation nolini had when he wrote the letter. For all we know, his mind and vision might have been clouded at the time of writing.
    Of course, l’m not suggesting that nolini had some kind of breakdown – if you read carefully what l said, you’ll see it was said in jest. However, l don’t think ‘breakdown’ is too strong a word, as this has happened to a few sadhaks at the ashram and on the Spiritual Path in general [one of the older sadhaks broke down and had to be carted off to hospital – where he recovered with the help of the Mother, who appeared as a nurse – which she verified later. But, it does happen….] – l refer you to SA’s letter on the ‘lntermediate zone’ for confirmation of this. Unless the stature of the Yogi is in the Supramental Truth-Consciousness [of which l know nothing] then a fall or breakdown is still possible. So, not knowing nolini’s Spiritual status, l can’t be sure what was happening when he penned that letter – so, obviously l can’t just give it a sublime interpretation simply because it’s nolini [l’m not talking about ‘breakdown’ in the psychiatric sense BTW]. And does anyone know who gave nolini his Spiritual title [SRI], because unless it was the Mother or SA l don’t think it means much. l am not judging nolini [l’m certainly not qualified to do that] but l will question his statements until l know exactly what his state of realisation is.
    For those of you who think l’m being impertinent, perhaps so, but lf l am, l’m sure M and SA will soon redress that in their own way..
    l’m aware that contact with humankind is necessary [wouldn’t be lntegral yoga otherwise]. And that this can probably only be realised through a Psychic approach – the Psychic being is said to be in direct touch with the Divine Love. When the Psychic manifests in front, all lower sensations [sexual etc] are nullified in my experience. l know about the ’embrace and kiss’ and holding hands experience because l’ve been through it. On certain planes of being you can walk with your arms around someone in very close contact and feel nothing of the inferior sensations at all – this is my own experience. But, as is implied in nolini’s letter, the physical needs to enter this arena as well.

    ” I am afraid, the Mother Herself was not keen for the Agenda to be published as a whole and Sri Aurobindo never wanted His personal diary to be published. Even the Mother tore away many pages of Her own diary before agreeing to its publication. So this idea that Pavitra da’s diary pages were torn by someone may not be true. It may be he himself who in his deep wisdom chose to remove what he felt is unnecessary.”

    This is simply your opinion and the opinion of the ashram trustees. There are many who disagree – primarily Satprem of course [but l won’t go there].
    As for Pavitra, you are obviously siding with the ashram against satprem, but still.. l can only offer this quote in defense, because it supposedly wasn’t just someone who tore the pages from pavitra’s diary it was the Mother’s son andre [so, we either believe satprem in the quote below, or not]:

    “(About Pavitra’s departure. Pavitra was the oldest French disciple; chemist and engineer of the École Polytechnique, he came to the Ashram in December, 1925, after having pursued his quest all the way to Mongolia’s lamaseries. [[Satprem’s note: Pavitra left some very interesting memoirs of his conversations with Sri Aurobindo and Mother in 1925 and 1926, which unfortunately were barbarously mutilated (with whole pages torn away, almost a third of Pavitra’s notebooks) by his closest collaborator, under the pretext that it would be “better left unsaid.” We shudder to think what would have been the fate of this Agenda had it come into the hands of those same “collaborators.” As Mother remarked in Agenda V of October 14, 1964: “They cut out and remove all that bothers them and leave only what suits them.” Thus invaluable treasures disappeared. (See Sri Aurobindo, Conversations avec Pavitra, Fayard, 1972.) ]] )”

    Anyway, mr pandey has his position and l have mine – and as he says, these are just words.
    And l certainly don’t think, as mamata says, that mr pandey has convincingly answered all questions in nolini’s letter. He’s skillfully avoided the most salient points l made, but it’s not that important, l suppose.

    Reply
    1. Danillo

      It is without question that Mr. Pandley manifested no intellectual sincerity in the way he commented about Nolini’s article. To say that Nolini is not speaking about sexual act in it is not to read the text. Mr. Pandley is clearly reading his own mind into it, not the words therein contained.

      However, Mr. Mike’s approach is too judgmental. He is already judging Nolini’s state of spiritual attainment, suggesting his mind was clouded or that he had a yogic breakthrough. Please slow down, dear people! There is no sadhak as great as Nolini in my opinion (and in SA’s opinion, it seems). As to the state he reached, once I saw somewhere that the Mother called him “traveler of the Supramental” or something similar to that, implying that he had reached some kind of contact or touched the Supermind. So there is no question about Nolini’s greatness in this ground. If you don’t agree with what he is saying, simply disagree, but there is no need to judge him like that.

      As to his words above concerning sex, they are echoing Sri Aurobindo’s words in “The Supramental Manifestation”, in which He says (and this is in an article written in the late 40s):

      “In all who aspired to it (celibacy) but could not yet take it up in its fullness sex will have to be refined, submit to the spiritual or psychic impulse and a control by the higher mind and the higher vital and shed all its lighter, frivolous or degraded forms and feel the touch of the purity of the ideal. Love would remain, all forms of the pure truth of love in higher and higher steps till it realised its highest nature, widened into universal love, merged into the love of the Divine. The love of man and woman would also undergo that elevation and consummation; for all that can feel a touch of the ideal and the spiritual must follow the way of ascent till it reaches the divine Reality.”

      – Sri Aurobindo

      So, is someone going to suggest that Sri Aurobindo was under a “yogic breakthrough” or that his mind was “clouded” when He wrote that?

      As to transceding sex: it is not really true that opening the higher chakras allows us to transcend sex. If the higher chakras are opened, it means we can live there and that we are capable of spending more of our energy and consciousness there – it becomes much easier to not think about sex, because we can turn our attention there instead of in the lower chakras when something surges up in the nature. However, it is the lower chakras that needs to be transformed in order to sex to be conquered or transcended.
      About the Kundalini being raised: the Kundalini does not get “raised beyond a certain chakra”. When the Kundalini awakens, it rises straight to the ajna and brahmarandra. It does not get stationed in different chakras. What is possible is that our prana is being raised and stationed in different chakras, not the Kundalini.

      The truth of the matter is that sex is not a mental thing. It exists by its own in a level below the mind. Mind cannot conquer it. Nor can our mere will-power does so (because our normal will-power belongs to the buddhi). What is possible is that we reject sex in our mind and feelings (because these are more conscious parts of us), in such a way that our mind will stop cooperating with sex and that gives us a relative self-control, we are capable of practicing continence, even for years in a row. We are capable to free the mind from the invasion of the sex impulse. And that gives us the illusion that we have transcended or conquered it: we remain with our consciousness more centered in the higher chakras, and we have a mental sensation of being above it. However, that still does not mean we have conquered sex. Once we go down to the lower chakras to work there, the whole of our “holy” self-righteousness and our celibate sattivic ego is crushed. We are forced to realize that sex lives still in the nature, with all its impetus and passions, in those lower chakras. And that’s why there are fallen yogis, because they illumine their higher chakras but left the lower ones unworked with: in their bulding the roof is strong and pure, but the base is coarse all the same. Eventually the fall may happen, because Nature forces us to achieve an all-round and integral transformation.

      So transcending sex is a much more complicated situation. I have to disagree, for example, with another article here in this blog about transmuting sex, and in which we see several ascetic-style ways of stopping sex to arise to our consciousness. Of course that is valid as far as freeing our mind and higher consciousness from sex interference, but it does not transmute sex itself. It does not transform the lower chakras where that exists, it only gives our mental will-power the capacity to remain relatively free from those interventions from below. .

      Sri Aurobindo’s formula for transcending sex is to awaken the mental, vital and physical Purushas, and through the Purusha’s mastery over nature, reject the sexual impulse; then the Shakti comes down and work on and transform the lower chakras. That is because the Integral Yoga is an inverted tantra, that starts with the Purusha consciousness and calls in the Shakti from above to do the transformation work.
      So the vital and physical Purushas have that mastery to reject something in the vital and physical, but the buddhi doesn’t. Rejecting sexual impulse with the buddhi will free our mind from sex, but not the rest of our nature. It will remain there as the constant threatening to our sattvic ego and moralist self-righteousness. And then we have the illusion of having conquered it and go out seeing sex perversion and falls in other people (as the Mother says, what shocks us in other people is what is in ourselves). It is tragic… Not an easy thing to conquer. So humbleness in this regard is very important. We shouldn’t look down on people who have not achieved that, or consider them to be weak.

      As to tantra, you need to understand that tantra is not the pseudo-tantra we see in the internet or in the works of people like Osho. Real tantra is a real and serious path, including the real left-hand tantra. In real tantra, the sexual practices are actually ways of mastering and transcending sex also. As Sri Aurobindo explains in the Synthesis of Yoga:

      “But it (tantra) does not stop short with an effective assembling of the different powers of these specific Yogas. In two directions it enlarges by its synthetic turn the province of the Yogic method. First, it lays its hand firmly on many of the main springs of the human quality, desire, action and it subjects them to an intensive discipline with the soul’s mastery of its motives as a first aim and an elevation to a diviner spiritual level as its final utility. […]”
      – Sri Aurobindo

      In the real tantric tradition, the idea is to master the passions and desires of the lower nature neither by indulgence nor avoidance, but by submitting it to a discipline, in such a way that the inner motives of these desires and passions are mastered, and thus raised to a diviner spiritual level. When that happens, the lower nature is raised unto the higher nature and one finds the Self and/or Purusha consciousness. It is the opposite route of Sri Aurobindo’s inverted tantra, in which we start with the Self or the Purusha consciousness.

      In reference to sex, for an instance, the Taoist tantrics would say that the inner motive of the sexual impulse’s existence is the search for the Yin-Yang balance in nature. So the male has a predominating Yang energy, the female has a predominating Yin energy, and so that attracts one to the other. The body’s very energy field (not the mind) feels attracted to that opposite energy in which it feels its own energy balanced out. So often we find that people feel peace of mind in the presence of the opposite sex, because in the very touch of the energy-fields there is a certain balancing connection between the Yin and the Yang energies. That, the Taoist tantric would say, is the source of sexual attraction and magnetism.
      So the Taoist tantric starts by mastering the energy-field in his body, opening and harmonizing the routes through which Chi (prana) circulate in it. Then, through this mastery of the Chi/prana in himself, he is capable of circulating the sexual energy in the body. This allows him to master ejaculation: in the sexual act, when the sexual energy builds up in the genitalia, it will seek a way out, and ejaculation happens; if one knows how to circulate that energy in the whole body instead of keeping it in the genitalia, ejaculation doesn’t happen, one doesn’t lose energy and the energy is transformed in higher types of energy as it circulates. Then, as this preliminary mastery is achieved, the practitioner can start the search for perfect Yin and Yang balance with the partner: their energy-fields get perfectly harmonized and merged, and when that happens they strike a balance in which the Tao is experienced, and in which Kundalini is raised and goes up through the chakras in a harmonious (instead of explosive) way, until it reaches brahmarandra. However, the couple doing that need to be in perfect soul-attunement with each other, in a complete state of self-giving, or else the Yin and the Yang in them do not get harmonized and do not lead to the Tao experience.
      In the Taoist tantric tradition, a ladder is spoken of, called “the seven spiritual stages of taoist sexual energy cultivation”:

      First Stage: Physical control of seed loss.
      Second Stage: physical and mental control of sexual orgasm.
      Third stage: mind control of sexual desire and orgasm.
      Fourth stage: exchange energy without having sexual intercourse.
      Fifth stage: Beyond sex.
      Sixth stage: transforming spiritual energies beyond mind/body.
      Seventh stage: union of man and Tao

      So this is more or less the Tantric rationale, in Tibetan Buddhism, Taoism or Hinduism. I explained it with Taoist terminology because it is simpler than the complicated Hindu tantric terminology, in which so many gods and symbols are used to express the same idea.

      However, true tantra is Gupta Vidya. It is only given from guru to disciple. In the “Letters to M.” (link: http://motherandsriaurobindo.org//Content.aspx?ContentURL=_staticcontent%2fsriaurobindoashram%2f-00+E-Library%40%40%40%2f-01+Works+of+Sri+Aurobindo%2f-01+English%2f-01_SABCL%2f-27_Supplement_Volume-27%2f-78_Letter+to-M.htm), Sri Aurobindo is mentioning about His tantric sadhana and giving guidance to the other individual on tantric sadhana, and mentioning how He could not speak about tantric sadhana in the Arya, and did not speak about it with “his friends Paul and MIrra Richards” either, and that he left only the Vedantic sadhana to be spoken about in public.

      It is also referring to the tantric use of sex that a disciple asked SA, in the “Evening Talks”:

      Disciple : If the sexual act is so full of danger, why should it at all be used as a help ? Why not confine oneself to a safer course ?
      Sri Aurobindo : That is a dangerous question to answer. I shall answer that question when you have risen above the human level.
      Disciple : When one has reached, that level beyond the human consciousnes, how is the loss due to the sexual act averted ? What happens to the excitement and dissociation from the higher centres of consciousness?
      Sri Aurobindo : The Higher Power can take up the things in its own way and prevent the harmful effects. Then the method and the act become absolutely different from the human.

      I mention all of this not as a defense of the use of the tantric methods in the IY, though. The tantric way of conquering and transmuting sex is dangerous, unfit for being given in public, and most importantly, although in Sri Aurobindo’s synthesis He made a profoundly tantric yoga, one in which the tantric philosophy and goals and principles are applied, He left its methods outside. So ours is a tantric yoga done through Vedantic means. He uses the Purusha as the means of effecting the yoga of Self-Perfection: through the Purusha consciousness we open ourselves to the action of the Shakti above the head, that comes down and transforms the lower nature. All methods that use Prakriti, He considered lower and unnecessary – including asana and pranayama. So in His path He preferred to keep the tantric methods out, and found a way of reaching tantric goals through Vedantic means.

      But this is no reason to condemn Tantra as if it was a dark thing in itself. True Tantra is in possession of profound wisdom and knowledge, and is certainly a true path to Spiritual attainment and realization. That we do not follow it does not imply that we should speak of it as “tantric stuff” and see Osho as an example of what the tantra is all about. It is an ancient tradition that has been followed by some yogis in India, Tibet and China for thousands of years, and that deserves respect.

      Reply
    2. Sandeep Post author

      Mike: Also, mr pandey, it is not difficult to glean information about you, since you appear to be widely advertised across the internet. So, why sandeep is saying your not internet-savvy, is a little hard to understand – especially with those youtube vids as well.

      Sorry, I have edited out the personal info you posted on Alok to prevent spam.

      The video and audio talks are prepared and posted by someone else who is tech-savvy. I once met that person in Pondy to resolve a technical problem but don’t recall his name right now.

      Reply
  13. mike

    Thanks for clearing that up sandeep. l wasn’t sure.

    Danillo, thanks for all that info it’s very useful.
    A few points though.

    “However, Mr. Mike’s approach is too judgmental. He is already judging Nolini’s state of spiritual attainment, suggesting his mind was clouded or that he had a yogic breakthrough. Please slow down, dear people! There is no sadhak as great as Nolini in my opinion (and in SA’s opinion, it seems).

    l assume by ‘breakthrough’ you mean ‘breakdown’ – if your quoting me that is.
    l don’t believe l was judging nolini’s state of realisation, as l’m certainly not in a position to do that. l actually said – ‘For all we know, his mind and vision might have been clouded at the time of writing’. Probably l should have stressed the word ‘MIGHT’ because, and l stress this also, we are unable to truly asses his actual station of attainment. The Mother might have said nolini is a ‘traveller of the supramental’, but l think that statement could have a few interpretations IMO. A few sadhaks had similar things said to them. One was told by SA ‘you will have it’ and M confirmed it for him later by repeating the same phrase. l assume ‘you will have it’ means the Supramental Realisation – but it’s still really speculation for us.

    ” As to the state he reached, once I saw somewhere that the Mother called him “traveler of the Supramental” or something similar to that, implying that he had reached some kind of contact or touched the Supermind. So there is no question about Nolini’s greatness in this ground. If you don’t agree with what he is saying, simply disagree, but there is no need to judge him like that.”

    As you say above, danillo, it was just ‘implied’, so it can’t be beyond question.
    Anyway, l’m inclined to agree that nolini, like satprem had achieved the Supramental Realisation, but obviously, in my present ignorant state, l couldn’t state that categorically.

    “So, is someone going to suggest that Sri Aurobindo was under a “yogic breakthrough” or that his mind was “clouded” when He wrote that?”

    No, of course, not. But, nolini’s statement wasn’t as clear and precise as SA’s – it was clouded with ambiguity IMO. [and again l assume you mean ‘yogic breakdown’ rather than ‘yogic breakthrough’ – which has the complete opposite meaning].

    “As to transcending sex: it is not really true that opening the higher chakras allows us to transcend sex. If the higher chakras are opened, it means we can live there and that we are capable of spending more of our energy and consciousness there – it becomes much easier to not think about sex, because we can turn our attention there instead of in the lower chakras when something surges up in the nature. However, it is the lower chakras that needs to be transformed in order to sex to be conquered or transcended.”

    Yes, but l think ‘transcend’ is different to ‘transform’. Transcend’ would be to ‘rise above or go beyond’ and ‘Transform’ would mean ‘to change (something) completely’ – so very different actions as far as l can see.
    You are right though. Complete transformation of the sex-centre can only be done through the descent of the Supramental Consciousness as SA says specifically in this letter [specified by the words in capitals]:

    “The whole principle of this yoga is to give oneself entirely to the Divine alone and to nobody and nothing else, and to bring down into ourselves by union with the Divine Mother-Power all the transcendent light, force, wideness, peace, purity, truth-consciousness and Ananda of the supramental Divine. In this yoga, therefore, there can be no place for vital relations or interchanges with others; any such relation or interchange immediately ties down the soul to the lower consciousness and its lower nature, prevents the true and full union with the Divine and hampers both the ascent to the supramental Truth-consciousness and the descent of the supramental Ishwari Shakti. Still worse would it be if this interchange took the form of a sexual relation or a sexual enjoyment, even if kept free from any outward act; therefore these things are absolutely forbidden in the sadhana. It goes without saying that any physical act of the kind is not allowed; but also any subtler form is ruled out. It is only after becoming one with the supramental Divine that we can find our true spiritual relations with others in the Divine; in that higher unity this kind of gross lower vital movement can have no place.

    To master the sex-impulse, — to become so much master of the sex-centre that the sexual energy would be drawn upwards, not thrown outwards and wasted — it is so indeed that the force in the seed can be turned into a primal physical energy supporting all the others, retas into ojas. But no error can be more perilous than to accept the immixture of the sexual desire and some kind of subtle satisfaction of it and look on this as a part of the sadhana. It would be the most effective way to head straight towards spiritual downfall and throw into the atmosphere forces that would block the supramental descent, bringing instead the descent of adverse vital powers to disseminate disturbance and disaster. This deviation must be absolutely thrown away, should it try to occur and expunged from the consciousness, if the Truth is to be brought down and the work is to be done.

    It is an error too to imagine that, although the physical sexual action is to be abandoned, yet some inward reproduction of it is part of the transformation of the sex-centre. The action of the animal sex-energy in Nature is a device for a particular purpose in the economy of the material creation in the Ignorance. But the vital excitement that accompanies it makes the most favourable opportunity and vibration in the atmosphere for the inrush of those very vital forces and beings whose whole business is to prevent the descent of the supramental Light. The pleasure attached to it is a degradation and not a true form of the divine Ananda. The true divine Ananda in the physical has a different quality and movement and substance; self-existent in its essence, its manifestation is dependent only on an inner union with the Divine. You have spoken of Divine Love; but Divine Love, when it touches the physical, does not awaken the gross lower vital propensities; indulgence of them would only repel it and make it withdraw again to the heights from which it is already difficult enough to draw it down into the coarseness of the material creation which it alone can transform. Seek the Divine Love through the only gate through which it will consent to enter, the gate of the psychic being, and cast away the lower vital error.

    The transformation of the sex-centre and its energy is needed for the physical siddhi; for this is the support in the body of all the mental, vital and physical forces of the nature. It has to be changed into a mass and a movement of intimate Light, creative Power, pure divine Ananda. IT IS ONLY THE BRINGING DOWN OF THE SUPRAMENTAL LIGHT, POWER, AND BLISS INTO THE CENTRE THAT CAN CHANGE IT. As to the working afterwards, it is the supramental Truth and the creative vision and will of the Divine Mother that will determine it. But it will be a working of the conscious Truth, not of the Darkness and Ignorance to which sexual desire and enjoyment belong; it will be a power of preservation and free desireless radiation of the life-forces and not of their throwing out and waste. Avoid the imagination that the supramental life will be only a heightened satisfaction of the desires of the vital and the body; nothing can be a greater obstacle to the Truth in its descent than this hope of glorification of the animal in the human nature. Mind wants the supramental state to be a confirmation of its own cherished ideas and preconceptions; the vital wants it to be a glorification of its own desires; the physical wants it to be a rich prolongation of its own comforts and pleasures and habits. If it were to be that, it would be only an exaggerated and highly magnified consummation of the animal and the human nature, not a transition from the human into the Divine”

    “About the Kundalini being raised: the Kundalini does not get “raised beyond a certain chakra”. When the Kundalini awakens, it rises straight to the ajna and brahmarandra. It does not get stationed in different chakras. What is possible is that our prana is being raised and stationed in different chakras, not the Kundalini.”

    Well, l believe the kundalini-shakti as it rises up sushumna, opens the chakras on the way, and when it reaches a particular chakra [probably anahata] it will raise the consciousness to a level which is rarely touched by the sex-impulse again.
    Kundalini [in the traditional tantric sense] rises through each chakra on the way to sushumna according to SA:

    “”Sri Aurobindo: Yes. Kundalini is, of course, the Tantrik idea: The Shakti lying coiled in Muladhara awakes, rises up and carries the consciousness upward opening all the chakras up to Brahmarandhra and then meets the Brahman, and then the descent begins. The Tantrik process is more technical”

    l had no intention of bellittling the power of tantra. l was simply basing my view on the comment made by SA, and has nothing to do with the likes of osho or what’s circulating around the internet:

    “Also, around this time, in Synthesis of Yoga ( 1914-20), Aurobindo commented
    further on the distortions he felt had entered historically into
    Tantra, while nevertheless acknowledging its possible efficacy as a spiritual
    path. “Tantric Yoga largely lost its principle in its machinery and became
    a thing of formulae and occult mechanism still powerful when rightly used
    but fallen from the clarity of their original intention” Although
    he did not give details regarding these limitations in the development of
    Tantra, he did suggest vaguely that “there was in the end an obscuration
    of principles, a deformation of symbols and a fall” (1970b: 38). Especially
    304
    in its stress on the radical transformation of very powerful instincts and
    desires, some forms of Tantra (Vamamarga) came to include various antinomian
    practices (including ritual uses of alcohol and sex), of which
    Aurobindo disapproved. Left-handed Tantra “seemed to make a method
    of self-indulgence, a method of unrestrained social immorality,” rather
    than espousing a “spontaneous rightness of action” which Aurobindo
    thought should follow properly from surrendering oneself to a non-dual
    Divinity”

    So, whether IY is some kind of ‘inverted tantrism’ l don’t know, only that according to the quote below He ditched tantra completely. Although, l know some of Mother’s occult techniques were fully tantric as SA told HER.

    As noted above, by 1914 Aurobindo was distancing himself and his
    spiritual movement from Tantra. In a letter to Motilal Roy dated June of
    1914, Aurobindo wrote of their group’s earlier “Tantric” practice as moving
    into a phase that draws upon Vedanta. In this new phase, Aurobindo
    was to become the central figure and special source of spiritual power and
    transformation for the group. This followed upon a number of Advaitic realizations
    he had experienced in his Yoga from 1908 on. In this letter
    Aurobindo called a “halt” to all Tantric practices. He argued that if a “sufficient
    Vedantic basis” were provided, “a long, slow and obscure Tantra will
    no longer be necessary.” He wrote, “The power that I am developing if it
    reaches consummation, will be able to accomplish its effects automatically
    by any method chosen, [including a Tantric practice],” but he claimed he no
    longer considered Tantra an essential feature of his spiritual ideal.

    l’m somewhat familiar with the Taoist tantric tradition you mention. Obviously nolini isn’t referring to this and in IY the Descent Experience of the Higher Consciousness takes up mastery of the sex-impulse IMO.
    l’d say that the inner motive of the sexual impulse’s existence is ultimately the search for the True Ananda – of which sex pleasure is a very pale imitation.
    The Yin/Yang principle would be the Twinsoul principle from SA’s viewpoint l think.

    “Then, as this preliminary mastery is achieved, the practitioner can start the search for perfect Yin and Yang balance with the partner: their energy-fields get perfectly harmonized and merged, and when that happens they strike a balance in which the Tao is experienced, and in which Kundalini is raised and goes up through the chakras in a harmonious (instead of explosive) way, until it reaches brahmarandra. However, the couple doing that need to be in perfect soul-attunement with each other, in a complete state of self-giving, or else the Yin and the Yang in them do not get harmonized and do not lead to the Tao experience”

    lt’s the Shiva/Shakti principle obviously.
    As SA said we need to be a master of lust and there must already be a complete union with the other on every level of our being [already quoted in a previous post]:

    “And before you can have a Shakti you must first of all deserve a Shakti. The first condition is that you must be master of all the movements of Kama, lust. There are many other things. One thing is that there must be complete union on every plane of inner consciousness.”

    Reply
    1. Danillo

      Hi Dear Mike,

      I’m sorry for the many times I wrote “breakthrough”, meaning to have said “breakdown”.

      I know you had said that Nolini’s mind “might” have been clouded, or that “maybe” he had a yogic breakdown and etc, that you were not passing a final and certain judgement upon him. But even on that I disagree. Nolini was in Alipore Jail with Sri Aurobindo, edited Karmayogin, came to Pondicherry in 1910 with Him, became the Ashram’s secretary upon its foundation in 1926 and continued in the post until his passing in 1984; was the Mother’s and SA’s secretary; deserved a comment such as Sri Aurobindo saying “If Nolini does not understand my Yoga, who does” (which was followed by His saying that He always sees the Force descending upon him), and also a biography named “Nolini: the Arjuna of our age”, for he was considered to be Sri Aurobindo’s greatest disciple.
      Nolini in the above article is giving some suggestions that sound unorthodox or at least unexpected, but in no way, shape or means would that imply we could pass any judgment on his spiritual status. For me his credentials are unquestionable and the conversation should stay within the frame of what it says, not who says. We might be free to agree or disagree with Nolini, but his spiritual status is not in question.

      About the Kundalini: the Kundalini is coiled in the Muladhara; when it awakes from its sleep, it stands erect and goes directly towards the ajna and brahmarandra, and opens all the chakras ON ITS WAY; but it does not stop in any of them or gets stationed in them. The Kundalini’s awakening is too powerful and explosive an experience, it does not happen gradually each chakra by a time. And by the way, it does not move from one chakra to the other, as if it leaves one chakra to go to another one. It stays erect, like Sri Aurobindo describes in Letters on Yoga:

      “There is a Yoga-Shakti lying coiled or asleep in the inner body, not active. When one does yoga, this force uncoils itself and rises upward to meet the Divine Consciousness and Force that are waiting above us. When this happens, when the awakened Yoga-Shakti arises, it is often felt like a snake uncoiling and standing up straight and lifting itself more and more upwards. […]The usual image of her risen and awake is, I believe, that of a serpent standing erect, the tail touching the lowest centre, the head the highest at the Brahmarandhra. Thus with all the centres open and active she unites the two poles, superior and inferior, of the being, the spirit with Matter.”

      Or as He describes this awakening in Savitri:

      “A flaming serpent rose released from sleep.
      It rose billowing its coils and stood erect
      And climbing mightily, stormily in its way
      It touched her centres with its flaming mouth:
      As if a fiery kiss had broken their sleep,
      They bloomed and laughed surcharged with light and bliss”.

      As to your saying that “[the Kundalini’s ascent] will raise the consciousness to a level which is rarely touched by the sex-impulse again”, I believe it is more complex than that.
      To begin with, the experience of most people with this particular subject matter is that they have the Kundalini awakened, it rises stormily through the many chakras towards the brahmarandra, stays there for a while and then goes back to its coiled, sleepy state in the muladhara. In the Kundalini Yogas the awakening of the Kundalini is an experience, not a siddhi; the siddhi is when you have repeated this experience many times, enough for the Kundalini to stay permanently awakened and illumining all chakras open.
      So while that siddhi is not established yet, one can very well go back to any ordinary state of consciousness. He has the Kundalini-raising experience, then loses it, and may fall down to other things.
      Another point is that, according to many specialists on the subject (such as Shyam Sundar Goswami in his “Laya Yoga”), it is not the raising of the Kundalini that allows us to transcend sex, but rather, perfect sex control allows the Kundalini’s awakening.

      Of course it is through the Sushumna that the Kundalini passes, but prana also passes through there. What we feel as an energy moving upward from one chakra to the other and getting stationed in different chakras is the prana, not the Kundalini. The prana concentrated on different chakras may also open them.
      Kundalini proper is fiery and explosive, and when it awakens it goes all the way to the head, it does not stop in the middle of the ascending ladder.

      About transcending sex: I believe I may have done a bad choice of words. I didn’t use the expression about “transforming the lower chakras” in the high-reach meaning Sri Aurobindo applies to it; in His case, He means something much more powerful that only happens with the Supramental descent, when each chakra becomes fully divine. I used the word “transform” in a lower-reach meaning of a basic opening, purification and enlightenment that is not yet part not of the Supramental transformation but of a more basic one.

      The idea about transcending sex that I wanted to convey can be better understood in an analogy with the three gunas. An individual who is predominantly sattvic in his nature is an individual who can live more in the mind and in the higher parts of his consciousness; by doing so and living so, he might come to the illusion that he has transcended rajas and tamas. But in reality he hasn’t, for he is only living in his higher and sattvic part, but his lower nature is still filled with rajas and tamas, only that in a less dominating state than in an individual who is not as sattvic.

      Similarly, by living in the higher parts of our nature and consciousness, such as the heart and mind chakras, we can have a relative freedom from the sex impulse. But it doesn’t mean we are free from it. Opening the higher chakras allows us to have this option of living more in the higher chakras, but it does not eliminate sex from the lower ones. It is still there in the nature, only more in the subliminal or subconscious than in the frontal consciousness. The Shakti has to go down there in order to really work it out. But in the IY that is already a good step. That’s why I have seen Pavitra explaining that the way to transcend sex is to establish a basic harmony, a state of relative independence from it in our higher parts, and open the lower ones for the working of the descending Shakti, which shall go down and work the purification there.

      As to the Taoist tantra that I mentioned in the previous post: no, Yin/Yang there has nothing whatsoever to do with the twin souls. Twin Souls can be recognized only by the soul, is something much deeper and more powerful. The Yin and Yang energies are in the vital-physical level: it is as tangible as the moonlight is Yin and the sunlight is Yang; or as the water in the swimming pool is yin and the desert is yang. In Hatha Yoga they recognize that by calling them “Ha”, or solar energy (the energy that runs in the Pingala) and “Tha”, or lunar energy (that runs through the Ida). Psychologically, the Yin energy tends to connect us more to the body and the heart; the Yang energy to connect us to the vital and the mind. Men usually are predominatingly Yang, women Yin; but not always, there are some women that have a good deal of Yang (and they are not usually considered attractive and behave more like men) and men that have a good deal of Yin (that are usually more effeminate men).

      Men usually accumulates lots of Yang energy in him. That tends to make him live more in the mind and vital than women. He feels like in a desert, energetically, dried up in his intellect. When he sees or touches the aura or energy-field of a female, it feels like an oasis in that desert, some water, some Yin energy that balances out his energetic-field. That’s what attracts men to women: their soft, sweet, nurturing Yin energy. Also it is the Yin traces in her body’s forms and curves that make her visually attractive to him. Women, in the other hand, usually accumulates more Yin energy. They feel like in troubled waters, unstable, vulnerable. When they touch the energy-field of a male, they feel like in a safe-port, feel peace and protection and stability. That’s also what attracts women to men: their strong, forceful, energetic Yang energy; and it is also the male’s form marked by yang traces that makes him visually attractive to her.
      So the attraction between the sexes is the subconscious and obscure way in each the vital-physical nature in us pursues Nature’s law of harmony. It is also the subconscious and obscure way in which the vital-physical nature loves. There is a self-giving about it which is the more obscure form of its love. For in the evolutionary Nature, love is part of an evolutionary ladder as well:

      “And Love that was once an animal’s desire,
      Then a sweetness madness in the rapturous heart,
      An ardent comradeship in the happy mind,
      Becomes a wide spiritual yearning’s space”
      (Savitri)

      Now as to the pleasure connected to the sex-act, indeed that we can say to be an obscure and degraded form of the Divine Ananda, as you had said.

      But in the pursuit of conquering sex, it is important to understand that the sex-impulse in us is not only about pleasure, nor is it only connected to the genitalia. It is wider than that, it includes, as I said above, this obscure seeking of harmony and love as well. What befalls on a sadhak is to identify these inner motives in the sex-impulse and raise them to higher levels of manifestation, achieving things like establishing a yin-yang balance in our own vital-physical energies to fulfill our need for harmony, or filling our very vital-physical system with the psychic essence, which will allow our vital-physical energies to share in the psychic’s devotion and divine love, etc.

      Here, by the way, is a complement to the earlier point I made: having access to the psychic and experiencing it does not make us transcend sex as yet; but it psychicisizing the lower chakras yes – which is a more difficult accomplishment. If we connect with the Divine in the psychic or in the head chakras, we have the Divine there, but the vital-physical need to have the Divine too in order to feel satisfied. In this case, we would be transforming the lower chakras through the power and influence of our higher parts, which is the proposal in the IY. In the Tantric way, we transform the vital-physical consciousness through the vital-physical forces themselves.

      But I am short of time now, I will come back later and write about your comments on the Tantra and its connections with Sri Aurobindo’s sadhana.

      Reply
      1. Danillo

        My first paragraph got cut. I had said something like:
        Nolini was in Alipore Jail with Sri Aurobindo,
        edited Karmayogin, came to Pondicherry in 1910 with Him,
        became the secretary of the Ashram from its founding in 1926
        until his passing in 1984,
        was M’s and SA’s personal secretary, deserved
        comment such as Sri Aurobindo saying “If Nolini does not understand my Yoga, who does” (which was followed by His saying that He always sees the Force descending upon him), and also a biography named “Nolini: the Arjuna of our age”, for he was considered to be Sri Aurobindo’s greatest disciple.

      2. Sandeep Post author

        Danillo: My first paragraph got cut. I had said something like:

        Just FYI, I didn’t edit your comment. No idea how it happened.

  14. Mamata Dash

    Thanks Danillo for your precious quotes of SA and Mother. Some how, within this agreement ,disagreement and ,different kinds of opinions about Nolini da’s article the whole discussion enlightened me to a great extent , gave me clarity on this subject matter. Thanks all..

    Reply
  15. mike

    “But even on that I disagree. Nolini was in Alipore Jail with Sri Aurobindo, edited Karmayogin, came to Pondicherry in 1910 with Him, became the Ashram’s secretary upon its foundation in 1926 and continued in the post until his passing in 1984; was the Mother’s and SA’s secretary; deserved a comment such as Sri Aurobindo saying “If Nolini does not understand my Yoga, who does” (which was followed by His saying that He always sees the Force descending upon him), and also a biography named “Nolini: the Arjuna of our age”, for he was considered to be Sri Aurobindo’s greatest disciple.”

    Yes, danillo, but none of these statements necessarily allude to nolini’s attainment or realisation in the Yoga, IMO – whether Psychic, Spiritual or Supramental. lt’s all speculation. This applies to all other sadhaks at the ashram [and outside] too.

    “If Nolini does not understand my Yoga, who does”

    SA in the above could have been simply referring to nolini’s intellectual understanding, for all we know. Nolini was there from the beginning, after all, so obviously he should have had a full grasp of the Yoga.

    (which was followed by His saying that He always sees the Force descending upon him)

    Yes, but does this mean that He only saw it like this with nolini and not others? lt’s all a little ambiguous – we can read between the lines, but still….. l mean, from what l understand, when we have the Spiritual Opening to the Force it’s constantly descending, anyway – not always entering the adhar, but always there above.

    “and also a biography named “Nolini: the Arjuna of our age”, for he was considered to be Sri Aurobindo’s greatest disciple”

    Who is saying that nolini was SA’s greatest disciple? because if it’s just coming from other disciples can we blindly accept it as fact. ‘Arjuna of our age’ is just a title that the author [by V Madhusudan Reddy] used for his book, so l’m not sure it carries any weight.
    What your saying is that sadhaks like pavitra, amrita, champaklal, satprem, udar pinto, m.p.pandit etc.. [look at pranab who was attending M for around 50 years – what can we say about his Spiritual status?] were inferior to nolini – great is a word we need to be careful with, l think, especially when it comes to Spiritual status. Don’t get me wrong, l think nolini quite probably was a great soul with a great Realisation, but but we don’t know what that realisation was, as far as l’m concerned. Satprem said he himself had achieved the Goal at the end, so we either accept it or we don’t – or , as l prefer, wait until we have the Vision and Knowledge to know for ourselves. That’s all l’m saying.
    lt’s also curious that no female sadhak is ever mentioned amoung these ‘greats’. There have been many around SA and M right from the start. Look at sujata who was at the ashram from the age of 10. lf satprem achieved the final Realisation then l should think sujata did too.

    “As to the Taoist tantra that I mentioned in the previous post: no, Yin/Yang there has nothing whatsoever to do with the twin souls. Twin Souls can be recognized only by the soul, is something much deeper and more powerful.”

    l’m only talking about symbolism here, not souls recognizing each other. But, yes, l agree it is something powerful, because l’ve been going through this experience for about 10 years.
    According to many mystics and others the Yin/Yang symbol is a symbolic representation of the reunion of twinsouls and not simply an abstract representation of forces of nature, as is commonly supposed – l prefer to see it this way.

    “That’s why I have seen Pavitra explaining that the way to transcend sex is to establish a basic harmony, a state of relative independence from it in our higher parts, and open the lower ones for the working of the descending Shakti, which shall go down and work the purification there.”

    Yes, this is exactly what SA said in that quote in my previous post.

    l think you might be wrong about the Kundalini ascending straight to the sahrasra. According to Swami Satyananda Saraswati [direct disciple of Swami Shivananda – renowned tantric yogi]:

    “In most cases, when the shakti reaches the manipura
    chakra, it begins to descend back to the muladhara. Often the
    practitioner has the sensation that the energy ascends to the
    top of the head, but usually only a very small portion of the
    shakti is able to pass beyond the manipura. Repeated earnest
    attempts are necessary for the kundalini to ascend further. According
    to Satyananda, once the manipura is passed, no
    further serious obstacles are encountered.”
    [from the book ‘Theories of the chakras by hiroshi motoyama – regarded by many as one of the best books on kundalini through the tantric method].

    l believe your right about the ‘prana’ however. Prana is directed to a particular chakra to awaken it.

    Of course, in IY none of this matters because the Divine Force opens the chakras from Up-Down.

    As for everything else you say, your probably right.

    Reply
    1. Danillo

      Hi dear Mike and others,

      I apologize for the long time it took for me to come back here. I had written some already, collected quotes in the internet, and then my computer got restarted and I lost it all, and never had the opportunity to come back.

      The quotes I was gathering were actually about Nolini. I remember now only the most important ones. Aside of Sri Aurobindo’s saying that “if he doesn’t know my yoga, who does?”, there is also Sri Aurobindo’s comment about him: “His is the pure mind”. The other quote I had mentioned somewhere in my earlier posts, was actually: “I (SA) always see the Light descending on him (Nolini)”. That He always saw the Light descending on Nolini is remarkable; it is not something that all sadhaks have at all. Some sadhaks take some time to experience the descent at all; the majority experience it, but intermittently. A constant flow such as in Sri Aurobindo’s commentary shows that Nolini was under total and constant control by the Force.

      Another quote I had found was the Mother saying that Nolini could enter in the Sachchidananda plane at will. That shows that he had – AT LEAST – the Vedantic siddhi. And to anyone who would say that is a “small thing” in the Integral Yoga, I refer to Sri Aurobindo’s letters in which He says:

      “From where did you get this singular attitude towards the old yogas and yogis? Is the wisdom of the Vedanta and Tantra a small and trifling thing? Have then the sadhaks of the Ashram attained to self-realisation and are they liberated Jivanmuktas, free from ego and ignorance? If not, why then do you say, ‘it is not a very difficult stage’, ‘their goal is not high’, ‘is it such a long process?’ ”

      So I hope that at least the idea that Nolini’s knowledge of the IY (as referred to by SA) is recognized as being not merely an intellectual knowledge.

      About the Kundalini: the excerpt you quoted seems not to disagree at all with what I had said.
      We read in spiritual literature about the fact that the nadis are usually blocked by several obstructions; when the Kundalini awakens and meets these obstructions, it returns to the muladhara before it is capable of reaching the sahasrara. When the obstructions are removed, then it can awake, rise through all the chakras and meet ‘Shiva’ in the sahasrara; when that happens the individual goes into a trance (samadhi), then he comes back and the Kundalini goes back to the muladhara, but flooding the whole body with amrita. At least this is what we read in literature about it.
      Now, I’ve seen some sadhaks of different kinds of Kundalini Yoga speaking about making the Kundalini stably risen as the siddhi of that yoga. I saw it , for an instance, among Paramahansa Yogananda’s followers (I don’t have the quotes now). Yogananda also usually differentiates between the samadhi that is a temporary experience, and the samadhi that becomes the permanent state of one’s consciousness. In the progress towards siddhi, the sadhak first achieves the Kundalini-raising experience; then masters it, being capable of making it rise at will; then achieves siddhi, in which it is stably risen.

      I’m no specialist in this subject, this impression is what I gathered from readings, not experience. Maybe I’m mistaken.

      You say: “According to many mystics and others the Yin/Yang symbol is a symbolic representation of the reunion of twinsouls and not simply an abstract representation of forces of nature”

      I think that is valid too, in a certain level. The twin souls are a manifestation, at the soul level, of the basic duality that exists in the whole cosmos – that are manifestations of the Ishwara-Shakti duality. So if the yin-yang symbol refers to the dualities of the cosmos, it can certainly refer to the twin souls, as well as to any other kind of duality in the Universe that has nothing whatsoever to do with human souls.

      Now, as far as Taoist yoga goes, the yin and the yang are the two poles of the Chi/vital-force/prana. All Taoist practices are based on the working on the Chi force. Taoist Yoga’s real name actually is “Inner Alchemy”, all its practices are means of transmuting energies in that level. Through it they attain mastery of the physical, vital and mental activities, and harmonize their energy routes to the energy routes of the Cosmos, attain Cosmic Consciousness and live in it in a state of actionless action (such as the one the Gita says to be the culmination of the Karmayoga, when it merges in Jnana). From the Taoist Masters came practices such as Tai Chi Chuan and Acupuncture, that are based on the knowledge of chi circulation and routes in the human physical and subtle bodies.

      As to the Tantras, I refer you and the other readers that are following the discussion to the blog http://gnosticpsychology.wordpress.com , written by an Integral Yoga sadhak. There is a section there with some articles about Tantric Yoga which may help. I quote here an excerpt from the article “The Yogic Vision of Tantra”:

      “The tantric Yogi agrees with the Vedantin that the central obstacles to this realisation are the twin knots of ego and desire—the commonly accepted diagnosis of the human malady by Indian spiritual doctors. But in the method or therapy applied to cure this human malady and in the nature of spiritual fulfilment, the tantric Yogi differs from the Vedantin—not much from the classical Vedanta of the early Upanishads but from the later post-Upanishadic Vedanta.

      This later Vedanta in general tends to view the energy of being as a Temptress and a bewitching Creatrix of Illusions, Maya, who snares the soul with her desires and passions and the urge for action and therefore this Vedanta tries to escape from her into the passionless and actionless peace of the pure Being. But the tantric Yogi views the energy of being as the adorable Divine Mother who is the repository of all blessings and grace-spiritual as well as secular-and the source of all knowledge, power, freedom, mastery and delight.

      Therefore the tantric sadhaka never tries to escape from life. […]

      All that is repulsive or terrible to the ordinary man, sinful to the moralist, inauspicious to the religious, unspiritual to the saintly, the tantric Yogi regards with an altogether different attitude. He confronts them with the faith and intuition of the divinity hidden behind even in these dark aspects of life and tries to understand the deeper truth and law and purpose and process of the Divine Shakti in them. By this understanding he discovers the secret of sublimation and mastery over the forces of his lower nature. He learns to rise spiritually by the very things by which the ordinary man falls. This virile and heroic spirituality is the general attitude of the tantric Yoga. But the tantric masters are wise enough to perceive that all are not capable of such a heroism. So the tantric path maps out a system of graded ascent to the ideal.

      Thus in the tantric vision the higher adhyatmic or spiritual experience does not deny the lower ordinary or samsaric experiences of the world. The higher experience of the universal and the whole of the Spirit fulfils and perfects the partial experience of the individual ego in the world.”

      So, you had mentioned how ” IY the Descent Experience of the Higher Consciousness takes up mastery of the sex-impulse IMO”. I believe all yoga requires that mastery – sooner or later it must come if siddhi is to be achieved. Also, all yoga requires mastery over the twin-knots of ego and desire. Only the Vedantic way of reaching that is through the heights of our being, through the illuminated buddhi, through the illumined heart, through the Spiritual Light from above, through renunciation of the activities of the lower nature. The Tantric yoga also attains to that goal but not through the summit of our being, it attains it from the bottom up. Vedanta operates by Purusha, Tantra by Prakriti – a more mechanical way.

      In this article named “Lines of Tantra”, the same Nolini essays about the historic development of some tantric sects: http://savitri.in/library/resources/sanatana-dharma/apr-11-2010

      You can see in it how while the Vedanta was a path for the elite, for the Brahmins and Kshatriyas, Tantra was the path of the downcastes, for the Vaishyas and Sudras. In other words, it was not practiced by people who lived in their minds and had very developed minds, but by people who lived in the vital-physical level. They found their own way of disciplining the obscure vital-physical nature and achieving to the Supreme Spirit, and in that they had their own genius, they gave precious contributions to the history of spirituality – such as the knowledge of the chakras and etc.

      Another difference is that Vedanta is more mystic, Tantra is more occultist.

      Now as to Sri Aurobindo and the Tantra, His contact with the Tantras seemingly started after -not before – His first Adwaitic realizations. It was already in Pondicherry that that was going on. We need to understand that the Sapta Chatusthaya is a profoundly Tantric sadhana. The Yoga of Self-Perfection is profoundly Tantric. Its whole goal is a working on the Nature, pursuing Tantric goals (and some other further goals not envisioned by the Tantra). The difference, however, is in the methodology. Sri Aurobindo did not adopt Tantric methods. He uses, instead, Vedantic methods to attain Tantric goals. This is the whole secret of the Yoga of Self-Perfection. Instead of mechanically disciplining Prakriti to reach the Purusha, we start through Vedanta and attain the Purusha, then through the Purusha open Prakriti to the Divine Shakti’s action. That’s why it is an “inverted Tantra”.
      Of course we all know that the movement of the Shakti is inverted, for in traditional Tantra the Shakti moves from below upward, and in the IY it moves from above downwards; but that inversion is not in the direction of the Shakti only, it has to do with some profound differences of approach and practice too. In the first chapters of “Yoga of Self-Perfection” in the Synthesis, Sri Aurobindo gives a key to this inverted tantra when He explains that the IY considers man much more a Spirit in mind than a Spirit in body. Here is the key. For traditional Tantra man is a Spirit in body, so the yoga must start in the body (asana, pranayama, rituals, etc); in SA’s yogic synthesis, the sadhak starts from the mind. Here is His quote from the Synthesis of Yoga:

      “In the method of synthesis which we have been following, another clue of principle has been pursued which is derived from another view of the possibilities of Yoga. This starts from the method of Vedanta to arrive at the aim of the Tantra. In the Tantric method Shakti is all-important, becomes the key to the finding of the spirit; in this synthesis spirit, soul is all-important, becomes the secret of the taking up of Shakti. The Tantric method starts from the bottom and grades the ladder of ascent upwards to the summit; therefore its initial stress is upon the action of the awakened Shakti in the nervous system of the body and its centres; the opening of the six lotuses is the opening up of the ranges of the power of Spirit. Our synthesis takes man as a spirit in mind much more than a spirit in body and assumes in him the capacity to begin on that level, to spiritualise his being by the power of the soul in mind opening itself directly to a higher spiritual force and being and to perfect by that higher force so possessed and brought into action the whole of his nature. For that reason our initial stress has fallen upon the utilisation of the powers of soul in mind and the turning of the triple key of knowledge, works and love in the locks of the spirit […] To arrive by the shortest way at the largest development of spiritual power and being and divinise by it a liberated nature in the whole range of human living is our inspiring motive.”.

      So certainly tantric sex is not part of the Integral Yoga, but it is, nonetheless, profoundly Tantric. The whole goal of perfection and transformation of Nature, of working out the perfection of the physical and vital forces, is a Tantric goal. Only the means are different.

      As to Sri Aurobindo’s guidance in the letters to Motilal Roy, you wrote:

      “In this letter Aurobindo called a “halt” to all Tantric practices. He argued that if a ‘sufficient Vedantic basis’ were provided, ‘a long, slow and obscure Tantra will no longer be necessary.’ He wrote, ‘The power that I am developing if it reaches consummation, will be able to accomplish its effects automatically by any method chosen, [including a Tantric practice],’ but he claimed he no longer considered Tantra an essential feature of his spiritual ideal.”

      I’d say to that that obviously the last phrase (“he no longer considered Tantra an essential feature of his spiritual ideal”) is faulty, as the IY’s ideal is profoundly tantric. The “halt” to all Tantric practices (SA had asked halt to the trantric practices of M. and those associated with him) had to do with the fact that He found them unable to follow it up. Reading those letters that is very clear. He pointed out that Tantra is more surely and safely followed when built upon a Vedantic foundation (which is an indication that His Vedantic-Tantric synthesis of a few years later was already being hinted at then).

      Now the key to why SA kept Tantric methods out is in the phrase you quoted that if a ‘sufficient Vedantic basis’ were provided, ‘a long, slow and obscure Tantra will no longer be necessary.’

      The obscuration and fall of the Tantric path of which Sri Aurobindo speaks about in the beginning of the Synthesis of Yoga (and which you quoted above) is not due to the fact that it involved sexual practices in itself, because sexual practices were part of the Tantra since the beginning; the left-hand path is older than the right-hand one. And SA doesn’t seem to criticize Tantra for that when He speaks of it in this excerpt (the first lines until the first ” ; “):

      “It (Tantra) seizes upon the obstacles to the spiritual life and compels them to become the means for a richer spiritual conquest and enables us to embrace the whole of Life in our divine scope as the Lila of the Divine; it brings forward in the foreground along with divine knowledge, divine works and an enriched devotion of Divine Love, the secrets also of the Hatha and Raja Yogas, the use of the body and of mental askesis for the opening up of the divine life on all its planes. It grasps at that idea of the divine perfectibility of man, possessed by the Vedic Rishis but thrown into the background by the intermediate ages, which is destined to fill so large a place in any future synthesis of human thought, experience and aspiration”.

      Again, in speaking about the Tantras (in the page following the one in which He mentions its fall), He says:

      “Instead of drawing back from manifested Nature and its difficulties, he (tantric yogin) confronted them, seized and conquered. But in the end, as is the general tendency of Prakriti, Tantric Yoga largely lost its principle in its machinery and became a thing of formulae and occult mechanism still powerful when rightly used but fallen from the clarity of their original intention.”

      Here we find that the dependence on Prakriti is what made that fall a “tendency”. Repeatedly He exhorts us to let go of dependence on Prakriti for the Yoga (quotes from the Synthesis):

      “…the methods of the integral Yoga must bemainly spiritual, and dependence on physical methods or fixed psychic or psycho-physical processes on a large scale would be the substitution of a lower for a higher action”.

      “That is the main sense of the use of exercises of Pranayama for control of the vital force and its motions which is so important and indispensable a part of certain systems of Yoga. The same mastery must be got by the seeker of the integral Yoga; but he may arrive at it by other means and in any case he must not be dependent on any physical or breathing exercise for its possession and maintenance, for that will at once bring in a limitation and subjection to Prakriti. Her instrumentation has to be used flexibly by the Purusha, but not to be a fixed control on the Purusha”.

      (Also on the comments He makes about Hatha Yoga’s limitations. )

      Now, another sadhak, M.P. Pandit, says in his book “The Yoga of Knowledge”, in an answer to a disciple that made a question about whether sex was an animal act. He answered:

      “It depends on how you regard it. That particular person felt that sex was an animal function. If one has developed a consciousness where every human activity – including sex – assumes its rightful aspect of an outflowing of the divine Energy, the Divine Consciousness, then certainly sex is not an animal act.

      This was the ideal that had been placed before the seekers in the Tantras, before it was usurped by the cunning vital which turned it into indulgence of sex under the label of spirituality. It all depends upon one’s sincerity. If one has developed that purity, by which sex becomes a process of communicating, of receiving the pure bliss of the delight of existence, there is nothing to be said against it. But this entails an extraordinary amount of purity. The body cannot vibrate in the gross sense.”

      But in his book “The Yoga of Transformation”, he also comments on it saying that:

      “Naturally in such an environment (Ashram), sex is out of place because it dissipates the energies and generally lowers the consciousness. It interferes with the action of the psychic when done with desire or passion. The Tantras recognize that only he can have sex who has conquered desire. A Vira is one who has gone beyond passion and desired. A legitimate question which is often asked, why does he at all need to have sex? Well, they give different explanations: the main one being that it is the ananda principle in the individual which opens the door to the cosmic Ananda principle. That is the theory. But for us in the Ashram it is ruled out because our aim is transformation, transformation of human consciousness into Divine Consciousness. In other yogas only the central part merges with the Divine or unites with the Divine. But here, where there is a holistic approach, an integral surrender, an integral transformation, sex is not relevant, not because it is sinful but because it distracts from our goal, ideal.”

      So in the first quote Pandit gives another key to comprehending the downfall of Tantra: “the cunning vital which turned it into indulgence of sex under the label of spirituality”. Because it is to be understood that originally the Tantras had nothing to do with searching for sex. It was not about “dis-repressing” psychology like in today’s Tantra; nor would someone send you out for more sex. It simply was a practice that started from where the person was. People were householders, who had a sexual life with their spouses, and the Tantra simply allowed them to achieve spiritual realization without leaving their householder life.

      The second quote gives a further key into why that practice is not part of the IY: because the IY’s aim is transformation, not merely realization. All of Nature in us is to be transmuted in Divine Nature, so its older workings are to be replaced and transmuted into their Divine counterparts. In SA’s sadhana in “The Records of Yoga”, we see His experiences and realizations of “maithunananda”, which usually means the pleasure of sex contact, but in His case it meant a high realization of the supreme physical ananda – of which sexual pleasure is a distortion – in every touch with anything whatsoever, by being able to experience the divine touching of Brahman in everything.

      So that is transformation of Nature.

      In the Records of Yoga, at one point SA speaks about the yoga of the Purusha and the Yoga of the Prakriti. About the second, He says:

      “Means of Prakriti: Whenever the thinking part of man is active, we notice very clearly that the work is going on in a place somewhere above the forehead. The action is centred in the heart, when the feelings are awake in him. In both the cases, the self takes the heart and mind for its theatre of action. In the one case, we are those thoughts and in the other, we are those feelings. Putting this in plain words, our actions proceed either from the heart or from the mind, while the actions of the animals proceed from the senses. We see the vast difference between an animal and a man. So if man transfers his centre of heart and mind, to that of a higher one, think how grand the God-man would be! That centre according to the psychology of the Hindus is Vijnana. This is just above the crown of [the] head. This is known as Sahasradala or the place where the Shakti is situated. From this seat of activity, all actions emanate.”

      That is my final point about why sex is not a part of the IY: the love and creativity and joy experienced in the “theater of action” of the sexual center must, by evolution, act in higher centers, just as the animal’s mind and feeling activities are, in man, raised to a functioning in a higher center.

      But the conservation of the sex essence and the transmutation of retas into ojas (which is necessary for realization in yoga) can certainly be achieved through tantric sexuality as well.

      Now, I took so long to write about these things, I never spoke about Nolini’s saying in the article above. I will come back here and do so some other time soon…

      Salutations to all

      Reply
  16. Al

    Wow…very interesting, thank for the post and great comments.

    I find Danillo’s description of the arousal of the Kundalini to conform with the Kundalini Yoga I practice at least twice daily.

    I use a forceful type of breath infusion (either Kapal bhati or Bhastrika) in different asanas to strike Kundalini in muladhara until it goes up sushumna nadi and enlivens the sahasrara (and ajna chakra as well). The whole head of the subtle body (sukshma sarira) is filled with light and there it could be momentary vision of the chit akash. This type of practice often produces a black out or a gold out, depending on the day. It is felt like the description by Sri Aurobindo (SA) as a standing up snake. Indeed, this I do several times daily, but I have not gotten to the main objective of this practice, which is to clear sushumna passage of dark astral matter to where it remains open, allowing for the kundalini shakti to continuously “trickle up”. What occurs at this stage, is that as soon as the practice is finished, or a while after, the kundalini returns and coils around muladhara again. It is important to seat down to meditate as soon as this breath infusion session is over, to use the pranic enervation produced in the subtle body during the meditation and for psychic investigation through Samyama.

    As for Satprem, I can’t see him as having had much of any spiritual realizations after his later writings, for his nature was, in my opinion, quite Asuric, as testified by some of his dissenting disciples in the Internet.

    Reply
  17. Darius

    I disagree with Nolini and I honestly can’t see how this article could help the
    seeker. Might it be this was a justification of his own choice?
    I think only those who conquered sex themselves can give an advice on this
    matter. I don’t know if Nolini is one of them.

    Danillo, you advised not to judge Nolini’s spiritual attainment but aren’t you too
    judgmental yourself claiming how great he is? Both Mike and you provided good
    arguments about Nolini’s spiritual status. However I would like to disagree with
    one. I think nobody had full grasp (even intellectual) of IY. One example comes
    to my mind about great yogi Pavitra who said that Satprem’s book was true
    revelation for him.
    In my opinion yogic greatness is comparative thing when it comes to integral
    yoga. On the one hand Nolini is super yogi comparing with us on the other hand
    he is far behind Sri Aurobindo and Mother.
    We are too bound to stereotypes. What is most interesting that we do not need
    to become a spiritual giants like Nolini to make contact with that new
    consciousness. Sri Aurobindo and Mother did their gigantic work to bring and
    establish this consciousness on Earth. Now it’s right before our noses and it’s
    not necessary to repeat Sri Aurobindo’s path.

    Danillo: As to his words above concerning sex, they are echoing Sri
    Aurobindo’s words in “The Supramental Manifestation”, in which He says (and
    this is in an article written in the late 40s):

    “In all who aspired to it (celibacy) but could not yet take it up in its fullness sex
    will have to be refined, submit to the spiritual or psychic impulse and a control by
    the higher mind and the higher vital and shed all its lighter, frivolous or degraded
    forms and feel the touch of the purity of the ideal. Love would remain, all forms of
    the pure truth of love in higher and higher steps till it realized its highest nature,
    widened into universal love, merged into the love of the Divine. The love of man
    and woman would also undergo that elevation and consummation; for all that can
    feel a touch of the ideal and the spiritual must follow the way of ascent till it
    reaches the divine Reality.”

    Dear Danillo, could you explain which part of Nolini’s article is echoing Sri
    Aurobindo’s passage? As I see Sri Aurobindo talks against sex as per usual. I
    am
    very sorry but could it be that you just misunderstood Sri Aurobindo here? I
    added
    few more lines to this extract:

    “In its human action on the mental and vital level sex is not altogether an
    undivine principle; it has its nobler aspects and idealities and it has to be seen in
    what way and to what extent these can be admitted into the new and larger life.
    All gross animal indulgence of sex desire and impulse would have to be
    eliminated; it could only continue among those who are not ready for the higher
    life or not yet ready for a complete spiritual living. In all who aspired to it (higher
    life or complete spiritual living) but could not yet take it up in its fullness sex will
    have to be refined , submit to the spiritual or psychic impulse and a
    control by the higher mind and the higher vital and shed all its lighter, frivolous or
    degraded forms and feel the touch of the purity of the ideal. Love would remain,
    all forms of the pure truth of love in higher and higher steps till it realized its
    highest nature, widened into universal love, merged into the love of the Divine.
    The love of man and woman would also undergo that elevation and
    consummation; for all that can feel a touch of the ideal and the spiritual must
    follow the way of ascent till it reaches the divine Reality. The body and its
    activities must be accepted as part of the divine life and pass under this law; but,
    as in the other evolutionary transitions, what cannot accept the law of the divine
    life cannot be accepted and must fall away from the ascending nature.”

    SA made so many remarks against sex that it’s difficult even imagine him saying
    something in its favour.
    His message was very clear: there is no place for sex in this yoga.

    By the way there is an excellent article “Sublimating the sexual urge through
    Yoga” on this blog. Personally I could not find better compilation on this subject.

    Mike lt’s been discussed at length in other posts, but usually it falls away
    either though the opening of certain chakras [heart mainly l think] or the rising of
    Kundalini to a certain level – at least that’s how it happened to me.

    Danilo As to transcending sex: it is not really true that opening the higher
    chakras allows us to transcend sex. If the higher chakras are opened, it means
    we can live there and that we are capable of spending more of our energy and
    consciousness there – it becomes much easier to not think about sex, because
    we can turn our attention there instead of in the lower chakras when something
    surges up in the nature. However, it is the lower chakras that needs to be
    transformed in order to sex to be conquered or transcended.
    About the Kundalini being raised: the Kundalini does not get “raised beyond a
    certain chakra”. When the Kundalini awakens, it rises straight to the ajna and
    brahmarandra. It does not get stationed in different chakras. What is possible is
    that our prana is being raised and stationed in different chakras, not the Kundalini.

    As I understand you both are talking about same thing but in different language.
    One must understand that conquering sex can’t happen in a blink of an eye. First
    there is rejection in waking state then in vital then in subconscious etc. It’s long
    process. As far as I understand Mike did not mean that sex disappear completely
    by opening some centres. It just does not disturb him. And Danillo may I correct
    you: the rejection of sex is necessary condition in order to transform lower
    centres but not vice versa.
    An awakening of Kundalini is different than in traditional yogas according to
    Sri Aurobindo.

    Sri Aurobindo

    Danillo We are capable to free the mind from the invasion of the sex impulse.
    And that gives us the illusion that we have transcended or conquered it: we
    remain with our consciousness more centered in the higher chakras, and we
    have a mental sensation of being above it. However, that still does not mean we
    have conquered sex. Once we go down to the lower chakras to work there, the
    whole of our “holy” self-righteousness and our celibate sattivic ego is crushed.
    We are forced to realize that sex lives still in the nature, with all its impetus and
    passions, in those lower chakras.

    I would like to correct you a bit. First we do not work in chakras it’s the Mother
    who does her work. Second I don’t think everyone who rejected sex suffer from
    egoistic movements. Even if these movements does take place in some seekers
    I think they should bite the dust after first nocturnal emission. Depending on
    personality that is 1-6 months only.

    And finally I can’t see how can IY be called an inverted tantra? Might it be that
    you forgot for a moment that IY is syntheis of principles taken from different
    yogas? Tantric principle is just one of them. One more important thing to
    consider that Sri Aurobindo took only essence not the techniques. Can you
    imagine Tantra without techniques? I can’t.

    Last question. Do you or anybody else know a couple who had great spiritual
    realisation making love in the bed?

    Al As for Satprem, I can’t see him as having had much of any spiritual
    realizations after his later writings, for his nature was, in my opinion, quite Asuric,
    as testified by some of his dissenting disciples in the Internet.

    I am sorry to say this but one should try very hard to write bigger
    nonsense than this.

    Reply
  18. Al

    Al wrote: As for Satprem, I can’t see him as having had much of any spiritual
    realizations after his later writings, for his nature was, in my opinion, quite Asuric,
    as testified by some of his dissenting disciples in the Internet.

    Darius answered: [I am sorry to say this but one should try very hard to write bigger
    nonsense than this.]

    Thank you, my friend, for the direct criticism, I appreciate your opinion greatly, you seem to be well-versed in the science of who blames who, and also by your long post, which I could not read fully, I am sorry, entrenched somehow in the realm of the diatribe.

    It seems to me that both Satprem and Suhata became, little by little, quite unhinged psychically as the influence of the Mother waned. The driving force behind this madness was Satprem himself, a tortured character, for Suhata herself was, at first, quite different and pure. When the Mother Mirra Alfassa stated in that little note quoted in these pages that his problem (meaning Satprem’s) was that he thought mostly of himself, his egoism, she was not exaggerating, and I believe that this never changed, but it only became worst, as his Asuric personality asserted itself. As such, I am of the opinion (only my opinion) that the “The Adventures of Consciousness” book is tainted, and it does not take much of a psychologist to feel between its lines the seething rage and the terror that was later to manifest in his unreadable writings.

    This was also the opinion of some who knew him well, like my late friend Georges Van Vrekhem, who told me in a conversation at Auroville in 2007 that he thought Satprem was an Asura. It is not difficult though, through an honest search in the Internet to find the wrecked lives and souls, including a suicide, that were left in his sequela, and the selfish use and abuse of several of his most important followers, and with the help of Suhata, yes. Just read it with an open mind, if you could, it is out there for everyone who cares to see. Perhaps was the opium that he consumed freely in his youth that fueled that relentlessness, the one that made him use Sri Aurobindo’s writing without permission to put together that controversial little compilation book “India’s Rebirth” with the heading: “Our of the ruins of the West”.

    Reply
  19. Darius

    Al, you are welcome. Don’t take it personal though.
    I am not going to go into the war of words with you. I think that if something seems to you it’s not necessary true. Believe me Mother has bigger authority for me than strangers spreading rumors through the net so I am not going to collect them as per your advise. I am very far from it.
    As for Satprem I would expect the arguments from someone making such a bold statement.

    Reply
  20. Danillo

    Dear people,

    As for Satprem, judging what was his nature and whether he had an asuric one is far beyond my capacity. All I can say is what I see on his writings, which is similar to what many people see:

    His post-ashram writings sure show great mental disturbance and lack of clarity and sensibility.
    He often comes across as a fanatic, someone with persecution phobia that sees evil in the ashramites all the time – even to the point of continuing accusing them of having killed Sri Aurobindo and the Mother and things of that sort. His post-ashram writings are, as the friend above here said, unreadable. Specially the ones that get more personal.
    (I do see the “Adventures of Consciousness” as genial, although more intellectual: I don’t feel much of a spiritual feeling or consciousness in it. But it is genial nonetheless).

    Satprem’s closeness to the Mother over the years seem to have been turned into an element of personal aggrandizement, as if he felt like the Mother was his possession and that he was her only child

    He accused, for instance, Nirodbaran of having ministered torturing medicines to Sri Aurobindo against his will, and then accuses the ashramites who took care of the Mother to have done the same. He seemingly couldn’t accept the fact that the Mother passed on, and blamed that on people.

    Nirodbaran wrote an article defending himself from Satprem’s paranoid accusations, which goes as such:

    “My confusion and pain arise from the fact that he appears to imply that we gave dangerous remedies, thus causing torture to Sri Aurobindo’s body against his consent. He mentions that Sri Aurobindo refused, the Mother did the same and then they said nothing farther. The last phrase would mean that without their permission or taking it for granted we applied the remedies. But in my booklet I have very clearly stated that only with their explicit consent we started the treatment… Satprem’s final sentence, which drags the Mother’s illness into the picture, leaves me in no doubt that there is a hostile insinuation throughout.” (Mother India, p. 564)

    But I’ll close my contribution on the topic about Saptrem with Amal Kiran’s words, written in answer to some of Satprem’s accusations:

    …. the Agenda in itself is ‘a divine gift to the world’ but ‘we cannot forget the ambitious and unfaithful hands that are offering it to us—not only with those parts included but also with malicious and misguiding footnotes.’ And he pointed out: ‘Then there is the question of fairness in the editor. On the strength of some tapes and letters, I have been assured of subtle manipulation and even of certain talks cut out because they were complimentary to a person who has fallen from grace in Satprem’s eyes. The spirit behind the Agenda is very far from being admirable. That is why Nolini [Kanta Gupta] refuses to encourage it and not just because Satprem has not let the Trustees have a hand in it.’ (pp. 257-258)

    Towards the end of his article, Amal Kiran wrote: ‘It is not my intention to show Satprem as all black. I knew him very well for years, I have known his difficulties and his good points and I am sure the Mother has given him some genuine spiritual experiences. But I am afraid they have gone to his head and have failed to touch with refining fire the outer being, the lower part of him to which the Mother’s reference can be traced in the Agenda itself. And the Agenda has been turned by him into a powerful means of self-aggrandisement and self-advertisement: he uses it to make himself out to be the one and only apostle of the Mother.’ (p. 258)

    Now, among Satprem’s followers one can sense this belief on him being “the one and only” – the one and only who achieved transformation, etc etc. But all I see in his later writings is lack of balance and often paranoid thinking, and a very great opinion about himself as being above the others.

    I hope I’m wrong and that he did achieve supramental transformation, but personally I can’t read anything he wrote after the ashram, can’t stand many of the footnotes he wrote to the Agenda, and I feel everything he wrote to contain a troubled energy and feeling; nothing of the calmness and serenity and lucidness we expect of a yogi and that we see in the writings of other renowned sadhaks.

    Reply
    1. amsha

      Satprem was working on transformation of subconscious things, experiences he describes are universal, you obviously missed something, plus may be your just don’t need this or can get it easier way.

      Reply
  21. Al

    Well, Danillo, thanks, perhaps not Asuric, ok, about Rakshasic…Pishachic, no, he did not have that dark sense of humor, so I use for the first time an expression used by a certain Mike here…lol

    Reply
    1. gopal.m

      Satprem would call him the one with titan spirit. It is described in Savitri.
      Yet mother saw in him distinctive qualities missing in other sadhaks. What it is time will tell.
      some of the things mentioned in the Agenda, she says could only be discussed with Satprem.
      If I ponder upon that further , I remember her speakin about things like “divine anarchy” , how even bad thing like yoga thro sex the divine could make use of (ofcourse not towards our benefits)but the divine by sheer exhaustion could make use of even that. All these and many ,could go on she chose satprem. He was all ears to some of these like no other sadhaks at that point of time.

      Reply
  22. rakesh gade

    Dear Fellow Sadhaks,

    This is my take on Nolini’s article. I have read the comments but unfortunately I have not seen any one talk about the love of the psychic being.

    Nolini is suggesting that to love Man purely with out the taint of body desires and expectations is indeed hard. That is the reason why most of the seekers of the Divine turn to Divine for pure love without expectation. But Nolini is suggesting that after learning to Love the Divine and having the experience of the Divine one should not be scared to come back to man to help humanity or love humanity. The ultimate perfection is to love god in the manifestation and not only the unmanifest. To love god in the unmanifest and silent brahman is much easier for a yogin than to love god in the manifestation. To attain perfection a Yogin has to be beyond the taint of sex and inculcate the psychic love for other humans, animals and earth. This is where the importance to psychic being comes into play. Even with the experience of Atman, the silent Brahman, it does not guarantee that the yogin in action in the world will not fall. Only the psychic being knowledge and love of the manifest world gives this perfection of love.

    IMO, Nolini is suggesting that for a householder who is married and living with a wife, who is also a sadhaka or a yogin who has the experience of the Silent Brahman, it is still possible to fall for sex because the vital has not been purified yet. Just because the act of sex has been committed it should be taken a great sin but the yogin has to perfect his psychic love beyond the desire of body and also psychicize the vital,mental and physical. This only give complete security for the yogin so he/she does not have to be scared of living with another human being of the opposite sex. Also the higher shakti can purify the lower nature( mental,vital and physical) with is also an aspect of integral yoga but a lot has been said by the Mother about they psychic being power to purify the mental and vital. Psychic is the priest who has the ability to refer all work to the divine and in the act purify the lower nature in work. This purifies the lower nature so man does not waste the energy the divine gives us. This need a lot of discipline and purification through the psychic being and psychic influence grows and purifies the lower nature with time. As this happens the Yogin need not leave his family and be scared of his lower nature weaknesses. We all have weaknesses, we have to overcome them. Even if sex happens it should in a relationship it should be taken a weakness to be overcome and not a great sin. Ultimately one has to develop this pure psychic love where sex or expectation of return and egoism is completely absent.

    One has to know what is right and wrong first then act on the falsehood in oneself to correct it. The path of the householder Yogin also teaching the Yogin how to handle the energies of the body and the vital and how to be disciplined to perfect oneself at a later stage and how to love another human without the taint of sex or expectation which is the ultimate love and perfection of love of the divine in the manifestation along with the love of the un-manifest.

    this is my 2 cents. hope it clarifies something.

    Reply
  23. Martha

    My gratitude goes to everyone for her and his contributions.
    So far, it has been an excellent discussion, nimble, sharp, clued up, clarifying, brave and mostly rude. In that sense, one could say that it has enacted the basic characteristics that “The Human Cycle” describes so penetratingly –and humorously because of its evident paradox:

    «a wide and tolerant spiritual reason, a plastic soul intuition and deep subjective seeking, insufficiently militant and destructive» (referring to the Indian inability to overcome conventions)

    and

    «a dissolvent and destructive intellectual criticism […] rationalistic, utilitarian and individualistic» (referring to the success attained in that sense by the European influence and impact).

    So, returning to the main topic, Nolini wrote:
    «… at times the human feelings assail again, we want to impose human feelings even on the Divine and produce many poems…»
    And I call that an amazing sense of humor, surpassed only by Sri Aurobindo’s.

    Reply
  24. Mamata Dash

    Actually, I feel it is not easy to take conclusion about Satprem, who had been chosen by mother to listen to the Agenda of future Species which Se could not be able to share with any one. Mother had said it often . And Mother effaced his past with three suicides due to existential crisis, In spite of many refusals mother nurtured him almost in Her lap, sent him to Tantrik so that he will be healed of his past life karma.. Satprem is a genuine an sincere person, very straightforward with intense love.. Mother had told some times’ After Sri Aurobindo.. , only you..’ When She met him for the first time near the French consulate She found his so funny with a rebellious heart bu She exclaimed to herself’ The beginning of a legend..”How many time Satprem had tied to leave and how many times She had dragged him to Her. I can nt hod my tears when once satprem was angry and decided to lave Mother said’ Do not you love me then?” .. I know very well (as I was associated with them and translated Agenda in to Odia) he had some limitation, possessiveness for Mother , trouble of not accepting Ashram as Mother’s work, still it is not at all tat simple to tell that Satprem was Asura.. no, I am convinced that Mo as Mother had given hm great value to tell Agenda .. which is like er blood.. one must have a respectful silence about Satprem’s relation with our Mother.., it was very complex and without Satprem the whole world would have been deprived of the last phase of mother’s Yoga.. Should not we acknowledge that?

    Reply
  25. Mona

    Thank you Sandeep for sharing such limpid and challenging wisdom. I found in Pondicherry many years back, the little booklet of “How to Love Man” by Nolini Gupta and the truth of his words and of his experience had penetrated my heart in a unforgettable way. Today I wanted to share it with some friends who have become so tyrannical with themselves because “they have failed to follow physical purity” and they live in conflict, in extreme confusion. This difficulty or obstacle for young spiritual followers is called a failure by most fundamentalist followers and yet, these same ones who judges others will never condemn arrogance, judgmental attitudes, subtle nastiness, criticism, public defamation of, for instance someone like Satprem, whom I do not know, and tomorrow, the venom of their severe black and white critical judgments could be thrown on another imperfect effort maker. It’s an amazing thing to observe where the whole ideal of Purity has been placed, everywhere except in the spirit, in the mind and in the heart. But no one will ever think that all this extreme negativity triggered by the extraordinary challenging understanding of human nature by Nolini and by his wise advice on the subject only reflects the stage of the ones who argue and react so strongly about this article. Do we still do not know that judgments about others are only an information about our own self!

    In the West we are lucky to have been exposed to the wisdom of The Master Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov with talks like: Sexuality and the Sexual Force that gives a full enlightened and compassionate knowledge on the matter. Recently some of his books have been translated into Hindi. It’s true that complete purity is a very high peak to be reached, but it starts within the heart, within the mind and if after so many years of sadhana, someone is still able to spread such negative thinking, such negative waves in the atmosphere, without even having the honesty to realize that this is an impurity, something I shouldn’t allow myself, something I shouldn’t indulge in, then…..we can wonder what is a spiritual effort? They are still in the kindergarten and it seems that they want to stay at such a stage.
    In Deep Gratitude for your blog Sandeep.

    Reply

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